clevermanka (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
clevermanka) wrote2020-04-25 10:24 am
clevermanka) wrote2020-04-25 10:24 am
Entry tags:
Yentl yelling
🎶This is one of those musicallllllls.🎶 This is not a spoiler-free discussion!
My mom took me to see Yentl when it came out in 1984. It's the first movie where I saw naked butts on screen. It also marked my first "wait, what" moments regarding sexuality, but it was a few years before I connected those feelings with my own sexuality. I remember thinking Barbra Streisand was quite attractive in that outfit and haircut, though (oh, wait, maybe I did have a thing for glasses in certain contexts pre-Guardian). What most struck me, though, was how much I wanted her and Hadass to kiss. Like, really kiss, not that panicked, pursed-lip moment.
I was raised southern baptist (I know) and while my parents were pretty chill for baptists, we were still a fairly conservative house. Premarital sex was bad, and obviously homosexual sex was really bad (although it was important to ~forgive them~ because they're still ~god's children~ etc.). So that moment, when Hadass leans in for a kiss, I was shocked at my gut instinct wanting them to kiss just like I wanted the romantic leads of any movie to kiss. Women shouldn't kiss each other! Why would I want that? Why would I want to see that? I didn't have any context for it. I figured it was just Yentl looked like a boy at that moment, a quite attractive one too, and Hadass was so pretty.
Two years later, One of the Guys came out and oh dang, I realized that maybe my thinking this had been a really good look and this was a really good look too might... mean? something? But that couldn't be right, because I knew I liked boys! And liking both meant I was one of those bisexuals who (according to my parents) were even worse than homosexuals, so no thanks to that (thankfully, I got over this pretty much the instant I went to college and met people who were out about being not-straight).So while I can't say Yentl was a sexual awakening, it started an unconscious progression of thought that would continue into my late teens.
Aside from the sexuality and gender aspects (which I'm not going to discuss further because then this will become all about me, not the film), 13-year-old me was also unconsciously influenced by the story of someone who didn't give up on love in order to be her true self. She just gave up on the love she wanted from that particular person.
What? not changing an aspect of yourself to accommodate your partner? Sandy and Sky Masterson are perfect examples of this in musical theater and non-musical media has this in spades as well of course. I wanted to include Sky here bc this sort of thing isn't necessarily gendered although it usually involves the woman changing (there's a lovely discussion to be had about how Baby in Dirty Dancing subverts this trope if anyone wants to have that discussion sometime). But Yentl doesn't change herself. She recognizes that Avigdor is not a good match for her, that they have different desires and mentalities and her own sense of self takes precedence over romantic love. That shouldn't be a revolutionary message, and yet.
I appreciate that Yentl doesn't give up on love, either. She asks, "where is the someone" who will want to share the life she wants--on shared, mutual terms perhaps, but not compromising her need for "more." Out from under the restrictions of her past (including the restrictions of Avigdor's affections), she might find that, but that's not the focus of her finale song. There's nobody on the boat she's exchanging even a glance with. She's completely focused on herself, winding her way through the boat and the other immigrants, showing her father how well she moves through the world now. She's alone and confident and what a tragic rarity!
Whew, okay that turned out to be a little more academic-esque than intended. Kinda slipped into my old essay brain there for a minute and that was nice!
My mom took me to see Yentl when it came out in 1984. It's the first movie where I saw naked butts on screen. It also marked my first "wait, what" moments regarding sexuality, but it was a few years before I connected those feelings with my own sexuality. I remember thinking Barbra Streisand was quite attractive in that outfit and haircut, though (oh, wait, maybe I did have a thing for glasses in certain contexts pre-Guardian). What most struck me, though, was how much I wanted her and Hadass to kiss. Like, really kiss, not that panicked, pursed-lip moment.
I was raised southern baptist (I know) and while my parents were pretty chill for baptists, we were still a fairly conservative house. Premarital sex was bad, and obviously homosexual sex was really bad (although it was important to ~forgive them~ because they're still ~god's children~ etc.). So that moment, when Hadass leans in for a kiss, I was shocked at my gut instinct wanting them to kiss just like I wanted the romantic leads of any movie to kiss. Women shouldn't kiss each other! Why would I want that? Why would I want to see that? I didn't have any context for it. I figured it was just Yentl looked like a boy at that moment, a quite attractive one too, and Hadass was so pretty.
Two years later, One of the Guys came out and oh dang, I realized that maybe my thinking this had been a really good look and this was a really good look too might... mean? something? But that couldn't be right, because I knew I liked boys! And liking both meant I was one of those bisexuals who (according to my parents) were even worse than homosexuals, so no thanks to that (thankfully, I got over this pretty much the instant I went to college and met people who were out about being not-straight).So while I can't say Yentl was a sexual awakening, it started an unconscious progression of thought that would continue into my late teens.
Aside from the sexuality and gender aspects (which I'm not going to discuss further because then this will become all about me, not the film), 13-year-old me was also unconsciously influenced by the story of someone who didn't give up on love in order to be her true self. She just gave up on the love she wanted from that particular person.
What? not changing an aspect of yourself to accommodate your partner? Sandy and Sky Masterson are perfect examples of this in musical theater and non-musical media has this in spades as well of course. I wanted to include Sky here bc this sort of thing isn't necessarily gendered although it usually involves the woman changing (there's a lovely discussion to be had about how Baby in Dirty Dancing subverts this trope if anyone wants to have that discussion sometime). But Yentl doesn't change herself. She recognizes that Avigdor is not a good match for her, that they have different desires and mentalities and her own sense of self takes precedence over romantic love. That shouldn't be a revolutionary message, and yet.
I appreciate that Yentl doesn't give up on love, either. She asks, "where is the someone" who will want to share the life she wants--on shared, mutual terms perhaps, but not compromising her need for "more." Out from under the restrictions of her past (including the restrictions of Avigdor's affections), she might find that, but that's not the focus of her finale song. There's nobody on the boat she's exchanging even a glance with. She's completely focused on herself, winding her way through the boat and the other immigrants, showing her father how well she moves through the world now. She's alone and confident and what a tragic rarity!
Whew, okay that turned out to be a little more academic-esque than intended. Kinda slipped into my old essay brain there for a minute and that was nice!
no subject
Ooooh I like this.
Good meta, girl!
Also I've actually seen ONE OF THE GUYS, but I never thought about it in any sort of thinky way; it was just ... amusing. My bad! It was in rotation one January with TIME BANDITS; my college roommate was out of town for J-term and left her TV and VCR with several videos, and I watched these two over and over again.
no subject
Well it is a pretty schlocky movie but! I think it's notable that it was directed (although not written) by a woman. That made a big difference, I think. I remember the oh oh oh progression when I realized I didn't ping on the main character until she cut her hair. It was another few years before I learned the term "soft butch" and then I was like AH. AH YES I SEE NOW.
no subject
Oh god I feel you so much on that.
no subject
But on a slightly different note, my parents saw "Hair" when it first came to San Francisco, and got the Broadway soundtrack, so I grew up listening to it, as well as classics like "Oklahoma," "My Fair Lady" etc. I remember when I was in grade school how much I loved wandering around the house singing, "Sodomy! Fellatio! Pederasty! Momma, why do these words sound so nasty?" I didn't know what those words meant. Sometimes I shake my head, looking back, and wondering what my parents were thinking, letting me do that.
no subject
no subject
To her credit, she was right. She knew my musical preferences, even then, because I honestly do not like Hair's music or the book. I've seen the movie, listened to the original Broadway cast, and went to one university production,--I feel like I gave it a good shot. I hate not liking things that are formative to a genre I enjoy.
(it's why I fell so hard for Hamilton which I won't get into unless you insist on nerding out with me regarding musical theater)
no subject
I was raised in an ostensibly less conservative household than you but, instead of being overtly condemned, homosexuality (much less anything else of the sort) was simply non-existent. The closest I can recall hearing about queerness from my family happened around 5th grade and it was mostly a sort of whispered acknowledgment that the theatre director was gay.
So even by 7th grade when I watched Yentl I was so far into the closet it didn't occur to me what that squirmy feeling in my stomach meant when I watched the movie. :D
But I do remember resonating with the ending message you mention, that she doesn't sacrifice herself for a love that isn't right for her. Which is a great message. :D
no subject
When I tried to come out to my mom at 19, I led into it by telling her about a friend I'd made at college who was bi (nice segue, right?). She interrupted and said "oh, they're even worse" (meaning worse than gay people). Cut that conversation short and never saw the need to bring it up again, especially after she found out due to her own snooping and, according to my father, had to see a therapist. 😂 OH FAMILY.
Romance is great, but don't compromise on the important stuff. This should be the norm.
no subject
no subject
no subject
Isn't it funny how, no matter how sheltered a kid is, they'll always find *something* to latch onto? A lot of the time, it's something so random and innocent, the parents never in a thousand years would've thought to ban it! I don't know what my point is -- maybe that dads should worry more about locking up the OBCs than their stack of old Hustlers?
I didn't see Yentl 'til I was older (late teens, I think?) and, while I was ecstatic that Yentl left Avigdor behind and went out into the world alone, I don't think I gave Hadass much thought at all. Which seems unfair now. She has so much potential!
I really ought to make a post like this, except for Newsies. (The early nineties movie version, not the good-but-strange Broadway one that makes, just, SO many weird romantic choices.) The word 'formative' doesn't even begin, man. Ten year old me WAS Jack Kelly -- even though I'm not trans, or even remotely butch. It's hard to explain. (Actually, maybe I'm not articulate enough to do it justice. The FEELINGS. The roiling, fifth grade feelings!)
no subject
no matter how sheltered a kid is, they'll always find *something* to latch onto
The queer finds a way.
Amy Irving did a phenomenal job with Hadass and I love how Streisand (of course) never EVER made her out to be some sort of obstacle to Yentl and Avigdor. I think they happily studied together behind closed curtains and laughed and shook their heads at Yentl's letters from New York.
I never saw Newsies, alas. Most of 90s culture passed me by bc I was very busy spending my twenties in bars and house parties. I know many people (younger than me) who were big big into it, tho.
no subject
Yes! I want good and interesting things for Hadass! I don't know exactly what I want those things to look like, but I want them!
Okay, but you're bound to see it eventually, and when you do, I hope it's the one from '92. Christian Bale's Jack Kelly is sweaty, his singing is iffy, his Brooklyn accent falters in the bizarrest of ways...and yet. He is the other half of my soul.
no subject
I heard it loud and clear, bb!
If/When! I watch it, I'll probably see if one of my local friends who is a fan would be up for a watch date. Sometime when we can actually sit on a couch together... XD
no subject
The movie came out when I was in high school, and I remember being very impressed by it, but I rewatched it recently, and no... it was pretty flawed. I have only recently seen it done on stage, two different productions, which were both well-done, but there were definitely things I liked and things I didn't about the book.
I must admit, Hamilton scares me a little. I haven't seen it, only the number done on the Tonys, but it has become one of those OH MY GOD IT'S AMAZING EVERYONE ADORES IT IT'S SOOOOOOO GGOOOOOODDDD things. And I know myself, I know if I walk in, expecting that I must be absolutely wowed from the very first note, then I'll feel doubly weird if I'm not. Oh look! You didn't like the popular thing again, because you're a weird person who never likes what other people like! And I'll feel alienated and anti-social, which will make the spiral worse.
I saw a touring production of In The Heights, which I didn't like, though I admit a large part was bad acoustics so that I had difficulty understanding the lyrics. (I don't know what's wrong with our convention center; acoustics are either excellent or crap.) The trailer for the movie had looked very good, and I will definitely see that whenever it's able to open.
Also, I enjoyed the recent Mary Poppins, but none of the numbers grabbed me more than any of the ones in the original. So I like Lin-Manuel as a person, he seems very charming, and a great advocate of Broadway, which I love, but I haven't actually yet loved anything he's done. It makes a little dubious about my eventual appreciation about Hamilton.
At this point, I imagine the first time I'll see Hamilton will be the filmed stage production. It came to San Francisco, but I can't afford SF theater prices.
So... I hope I like Hamilton. I really do! But not actually counting on it.
no subject
Lin is NOT a great singer but his stage presence is incredible (I...actually got to see the original cast on Broadway because I got very VERY lucky). The Mary Poppins movie didn't interest me sufficiently to see it in theaters and from what I've heard I can probably live happily leaving it alone.