clevermanka | So well put. Of course. It's British.

So well put. Of course. It's British.

Here is an excellent article from The Guardian that explains very well why I loved the Narnia books as a child, but can't bring myself to read them as an adult. I'm sure the movie is quite pretty, and I might rent it someday, but I won't be going to the theater to catch it.

FWIW, I can't read the Oz books anymore, either. While the social commentary and fetishization of little girls went totally over my head when I was ten, they're blatantly obvious now. I just can't get through them.

If you're curious, children's books that did stand the test of time for me: Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising series and Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles. Solid good vs. evil stories without the irritating and cloying overtones.

UPDATE: OMG OMG OMG. My first volume of the Arabian Nights Just Arrived. Oh. Oh Oh Oh!!!! Opening it now!

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Love Susan Cooper. Have you read Tamora Pierce? Amazing kids' books, but great for adults, too.

I haven't, but my mom raves about Pierce's stuff. She's big into YA lit.

It's odd, because I never resented the allegory. I recognized it right away even as a child. I've just never understood why it bothers people so much.

Those are the two series that have remained with me, too. I recommend them to folks all the time.

'The Dark is Rising' series is what made me lust to go to Wales, which I did.

'The Book of Three' is what got me in trouble in school for reading when I shouldn't have been.

I think I had the same feeling as

gmskarka mentions above. Betrayal. I dislike the manipulative tactic of taking a child's love of the fantastic and using it as an evangelical device.

If you aren't bothered by it, that's fantastic. I rather envy you, really. I'd love to be able to enjoy them again, but the religious, sexist, and racist ghosts are too strong for me.

We all have our sore spots. I have received much hatred from Pullman fans for my review of his books. The presumption is that I must be a Christian if I'm not a fan of his own version of "taking a child's love of the fantastic and using it as an evangelical device." The only difference is that he's preaching atheism and despair. And of course the opposite of atheist is always Christian, right? Heh.

I hated Pullman's books. At least the Narnia books were enjoyable to read. Dark Materials just made me want to throw myself off a bridge. I didn't even finish them.

That said, I'd love to read your review. =D

ugh.

hey, Tolkien didn't like them, either, hm? There's a second point in his pro column. Many more against him, though.

Is my favorite children's/YA series ever. It is one of my favorite Yule gifts to give. If you enjoy it, you would probably also like John Masefield's "The Box of Delights", which is another fantasy book full of British mythology. I read it first as an adult, and the feeling I got from it was remarkably similar to that of "The Dark is Rising". I do love the "dark and spooky yuletide" stuff.

I love it when other people are with me on the feeling that Yule is a much creepier time of year than Halloween. =)

I ADORED that series. In fact, just bought new copies & re-read it last year. Had forgotten how BAD Silver on the Tree was, though. It's like she suddenly thought "shit! I have to wrap this all up & end it. Ummmmm...."

I particularly enjoyed the account of the Wild Hunt & the making of the Greenman. If anything gives me any reason to believe I've been here before, it's reading something like that, which I'd never heard of or even IMAGINED & yet knowing, in my heart, that it was real & I'd always been missing it.

Ms. Cooper also wrote the closing poem used for every Revels.

I think that I never felt betrayed because I was told from the beginning that it was allegory. In fact, my first exposure to the Narnia Chronicles as a child was through my parents church, as they were the only books even resembling fantasy that were on hand in the library there.

That being said, my favorite books in the series are the ones that have the least amount of allegory in them. I would much rather read "The Horse and His Boy" then "The Last Battle" and will take "Tale of the Dawn Treader" over "The Magician's Nephew" any day. Okay, except for the end of the journey in "Dawn Treader", where they get to the end of the world. The allegory there is so strong that I feel it has been applied with a mallet, but I have a soft spot for swashbuckling mice.

Oh very much yes! I wonder why it is that the Brits seem to be so much better at expressing that than other cultures?

Um. They're already depressed? =D

Yes, that's it. Betrayal. Here I thought I was being entertained and he was really preaching at me.

I love the Susan Cooper series. I actually own all of them in a box set, though I must say that "The Dark Is Rising" book is my favorite--the one where Will is collecting all the symbols.

And I must reread all the Narnia books. I remember the allegory, but not as being so abundant as you say it is. Golly gee, another excuse to go read books....

My favorite childhood book was The Girl Who Owned A City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_Who_Owned_A_City) by O.T. Nelson. Oddly enough, I've never found another book by the author.

I really found that this book stood the test of time. I enjoyed it immensely.

Narnia, on the other hand, I recognized for Christian propoganda when I read it. I thought it was boring, frankly.

I am among the ones who knew it was allegory from the very beginning, and it didn't bother me. Of course, this is coming from someone who considers herself as much Christian as Pagan as Buddhist as etc./etc./etc. But the Narnia books have always been a source of great joy for me, even though I knew it was Christian, even when I was all anti-Christian. I am in the middle of collecting the Dark Is Rising books, and will read them as soon as I have them all. I'm excited for them now! And I couldn't even get through the first Pullman book...

Think of it as an allegory for Hercules, the son of god, who died and returned to life....

There really isn't anything new and unique about the concept of sacrifice and redemption, and personally I find it tacky and disrespectful to retell Jesus' story with animals and schoolgirls, so I choose to think of it as a fairy story and nothing more.

I guess I'm missing the betrayal part. I didn't feel betrayed that Bridget Jones' Diary is a retelling of Pride and Prejudice, I didn't feel betrayed that Eaters of the Dead was a retelling of Beowulf, and I didn't feel betrayed that Dune or Illusions had a messianic theme. People rework and retell stories all the time, including biblical stories.

Are people feeling betrayed because the author intended the overtones? Because the author was hoping children would become Christians? Funny, it never worked for me, and I doubt that it hypnotized anyone else into believing, either, but I do find it refreshing to see über Christians finally letting their kids see a fairy story. Maybe those kids will grow up to like other fairy stories, too. I know I did.

I read and re-read the Narnia books as a child. I've re-read them several times as an adult, knowing Lewis's background and goal. The thing is, there are so many stories within so many mythologies with the same themes. Christianity may be telling the story of resurrection the loudest, but for me at least, they don't own it. How many gods die and are born again? Or go into darkness only to return? Odin, Persephone...creator gods, destroyer gods...more than I know about I'm sure.
If anything, this story made me go looking for other stories, made me see the commonalities and the differences. But then, I've always been a little stubborn and somewhat dim about allegory. The author tells their story. The story I read may (and often is) be something entirely different though. ; )

Hey!
I resemble that remark.

Heck yes.
Make little children sit on a fat old man's lap who they don't know, whisper what they want in his ear, and be rewarded for it with candy. The pervert who came up with that little act should be beaten. No wonder most kids cry buckets at their first visit to Santa...they KNOW it's creepy.

and

Disgusting.

Unfortunately, it's well-put by Polly Toynbee, who is quite a twit.

I very much enjoyed the first book, and was less thrilled with the 2nd and 3rd books. Why did you dislike them? Too depressing, or too much "yeah, I'm against god, but I don't really have a good replacement for faith or joy"?

The girl (I don't remember her name), but the main protagonist girl made me want to scream. What a thoroughly unlikeable creature. Ugh.

And yes, they were solidly depressing, with no positive emotional payoff at the end. If you're going to present an alternative to a Christian mythology, don't make it so fucking bleak!

Yeah, like this (http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0380813815&tc=ae).

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So well put. Of course. It's British.

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"And then there were five..."

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The Dark is Rising

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Yay for the Dark is Rising!

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