This IS a first-world problem

[clevermanka]

I just got switched over to the new Gmail formatting which (surprise) FUCKING SUCKS ASS. It's all top-posting, which I hate. I got my first email account in 1989, and the standard style of responding was in-line responses. Top-posting responders were generally considered lazy assholes. For those of you who don't know these designations, here is how in-line responses look:

> On 12/12/12 at 12:12, Chernobyl Red wrote:
>
> I am so fucking fed up with dipshit internet services updating their
> services with the end result of only making them less useful and
> more annoying. I am looking at you, Gmail, LJ, and Tumblr.

SERIOUSLY.

> I mean, it's one thing to make updates and changes, but why don't they
> give us a choice if we want to upgrade?

Because they're a bunch of fucking douchebags.

...

Top-posting is just what it sounds like, where you write your response all at the top of an email. I dislike it for a number of reasons. It's difficult to tell sometimes, as a writer and a reader, what is being said in response to what. People have a tendency to pay less attention to the details of what's being said if the words aren't right there for them to answer. Email exchanges turn into exercises in monologue-ing instead of a conversation. I don't mind so much when people answer my emails in top-posting format (although I definitely prefer responses in-line), but I absolutely hate answering emails in top-posting format, and that is (as far as I can tell) going to be the only option in gmail.

I hate it enough that I'm seriously considering looking into getting a different email service. Anyone got recommendations?

While I'm on the topic of annoying social networking sites, I'm putting together next week's Tumblr collection. The theme is Sherlock Fanart. If anyone has recommendations for a particularly beloved piece of fanart (SFW) that they'd like to see in the collection, send me a link.

Comments

[shrijani.livejournal.com]

I will be watching this space for email services that don't suck, and I will be completely shocked if there are any. I prefer in-line responses by far, but whatever, all users must be monetized, all spaces must be homogenized, all of the internet must be easy and uncomplicated and rigid and shitty.

The internet is ruined. It's so dumbed down that you can't customize jack shit anymore, and I HATE IT. All of the late adopters just fucked it all up.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

It's so dumbed down that you can't customize jack shit anymore

Yep.

If I had my own server still, with my own domain (oh chernobylred.net, I never thought I'd actually miss you) I'd go back to using Pine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_%28email_client%29), or Alpine as it appears in its current incarnation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

I must not have the new gmail formatting, because nothing prevents me from arrowing down to/through the text of what I am replying to.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's coming for you, too. Just wait for it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

I got a new gmail awhile ago (and I guess it has really been a *real* while ago) and I was all outraged by the change from text to pictures for all the functions like Trash, Spam, etc. because I process text better and the change to icons didn't sit right to my eyes. Outraged! But, now I don't even notice it. And I love the priority mailbox system so much I could hug it!

And I was coming back to edit my original comment to say: Editing to add: I've actually come to prefer top posting because I find I resent having to slog through what I already said to get to what the person is saying. It feels archaic (and, rightfully so, I guess!). In my old age, I am coming to resent anything that causes me to have to scroll down unnecessarily! :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I resent having to slog through what I already said to get to what the person is saying

Back in The Old Days, we had a phrase for not cutting unnecessary text in your response. It wasn't complimentary.

[redheadfae.livejournal.com]

I noticed at some point that I had to start cutting and pasting in order to get my emails to look the way I wanted, I didn't know the terminology. Thanks!
But.. no thanks to gmail.

I miss having threaded (and staggered, is that the right way to put it?) conversations in my email, I guess that makes me a grumpy old grump.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Grumpy Old Grumps UNITE.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

Speak of the devil, i just logged in and now I have it! Although, I still don't have any problem replying inline if i want to. It's just that the previous content is now -- to my appreciation -- default hidden in the reply box. "Respond inline" is even a bullet point on the "Gmail's new compose and reply experience" page/fact sheet. So, yours must be broken!!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

yours must be broken

This is my surprised face.



Where is the bullet point, may I ask? Is there any way you could do a screen shot? Because I looked ALL OVER for it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

Here you go: bullet points (https://support.google.com/mail/answer/2645922?p=newcompose&rd=1)

Editing to add: and i got to that page by clicking "learn more" on the page where they told me I was switching over. (where the choices were 'learn more' and 'okay, i got it' or whatever they were.)

[stuology.livejournal.com]

1) When you hit reply, there are some small dots below your cursor. Click those and you can type inline.

2) On the bottom window pane of where you are typing your reply, there is a small trashcan icon with a small arrow to the right. Click that arrow and pick "Temporarily switch back to old composing style" or something like that.

3) Gmail has both POP and IMAP available for their mail service. Use any client you want.

[poincaraux.livejournal.com]

There are, of course, a million of these. I got this collection from http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html

A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

A: The lost context.
Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

A: Yes.
Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?

There used to be a Google Labs feature that let you bottom post, but that died with Google Labs, apparently. It seems like there must be a userscript or something, but I can't find a recent one.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

AWESOME. Thank you for the tips.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd be on my side on this one.

*fistbump*

Also? These are GOLDEN.

[alryssa.livejournal.com]

I confess I have gotten lazy on this front; I used to feel much the same way, but I'm so bad at replying to emails now, it's kind of a 'do this now or never' thing and a lot of the time I'm on my phone, so it's harder to navigate downwards to make it inline. :P

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

At least you admit it it's a suboptimal means of electronic dialogue.

[amjhawk.livejournal.com]

Interesting.

So, at work, everyone's account is a google account. Gmail and GDrive are how we handle 95% of our not-face-to-face communication and our documentation.

And especially as a producer, I get and send a TON of email. Our studio production director showed me a lot of fancy ways to use gmail to auto-filter, and poke me if say, a client didn't respond to an email I sent to them after a week or two. If you go through Labs, I have too many of those features turned on.

What I've noticed is that work email tends to be short and sweet whenever possible. It's definitely not ideal if a given email is dealing with more than one subject. Oftentimes, if I have two unrelated points to discuss with someone, I'll send two different emails knowing that many people draw a strict line between time for work/development and time to deal with email. (I think I actually just did this to McKitterick, too.)

Now, when we're collaborating or actively discussing something (like a game design that needs to be critiqued and iterated upon), most of those discussions take place in a google doc. Everyone can work in it simultaneously, and people can leave comments clearly attached to certain blocks of text. (Just like in-line responses.)


Anyway, I've been too busy for far too long, trying to catch up and eventually post an update of my own. This one caught my eye because if you were on my team, this is something we'd try to streamline somehow. And working at an actual company in game development now, it's changed my view pretty fundamentally about how tools like email are used in the workplace. (And this is after my previous job was about sending broadcast emails to alumni nationwide advertising happy hours and various events.)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Work emails and social emails are very different animals. I use Outlook for work email (I don't have a choice) and it's all top-posting. I'm fine with that.

[zitronenhai.livejournal.com]

I will be watching this space for email services that don't suck, and I will be completely shocked if there are any. I prefer in-line responses by far, but whatever, all users must be monetized, all spaces must be homogenized, all of the internet must be easy and uncomplicated and rigid and shitty.

The internet is ruined. It's so dumbed down that you can't customize jack shit anymore, and I HATE IT. All of the late adopters just fucked it all up.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

It's so dumbed down that you can't customize jack shit anymore

Yep.

If I had my own server still, with my own domain (oh chernobylred.net, I never thought I'd actually miss you) I'd go back to using Pine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_%28email_client%29), or Alpine as it appears in its current incarnation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

I must not have the new gmail formatting, because nothing prevents me from arrowing down to/through the text of what I am replying to.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's coming for you, too. Just wait for it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

I got a new gmail awhile ago (and I guess it has really been a *real* while ago) and I was all outraged by the change from text to pictures for all the functions like Trash, Spam, etc. because I process text better and the change to icons didn't sit right to my eyes. Outraged! But, now I don't even notice it. And I love the priority mailbox system so much I could hug it!

And I was coming back to edit my original comment to say: Editing to add: I've actually come to prefer top posting because I find I resent having to slog through what I already said to get to what the person is saying. It feels archaic (and, rightfully so, I guess!). In my old age, I am coming to resent anything that causes me to have to scroll down unnecessarily! :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I resent having to slog through what I already said to get to what the person is saying

Back in The Old Days, we had a phrase for not cutting unnecessary text in your response. It wasn't complimentary.

[redheadfae.livejournal.com]

I noticed at some point that I had to start cutting and pasting in order to get my emails to look the way I wanted, I didn't know the terminology. Thanks!
But.. no thanks to gmail.

I miss having threaded (and staggered, is that the right way to put it?) conversations in my email, I guess that makes me a grumpy old grump.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Grumpy Old Grumps UNITE.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

Speak of the devil, i just logged in and now I have it! Although, I still don't have any problem replying inline if i want to. It's just that the previous content is now -- to my appreciation -- default hidden in the reply box. "Respond inline" is even a bullet point on the "Gmail's new compose and reply experience" page/fact sheet. So, yours must be broken!!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

yours must be broken

This is my surprised face.



Where is the bullet point, may I ask? Is there any way you could do a screen shot? Because I looked ALL OVER for it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_luaineach/]

Here you go: bullet points (https://support.google.com/mail/answer/2645922?p=newcompose&rd=1)

Editing to add: and i got to that page by clicking "learn more" on the page where they told me I was switching over. (where the choices were 'learn more' and 'okay, i got it' or whatever they were.)

[stuology.livejournal.com]

1) When you hit reply, there are some small dots below your cursor. Click those and you can type inline.

2) On the bottom window pane of where you are typing your reply, there is a small trashcan icon with a small arrow to the right. Click that arrow and pick "Temporarily switch back to old composing style" or something like that.

3) Gmail has both POP and IMAP available for their mail service. Use any client you want.

[poincaraux.livejournal.com]

There are, of course, a million of these. I got this collection from http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html

A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

A: The lost context.
Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?

A: Yes.
Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?

There used to be a Google Labs feature that let you bottom post, but that died with Google Labs, apparently. It seems like there must be a userscript or something, but I can't find a recent one.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

AWESOME. Thank you for the tips.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd be on my side on this one.

*fistbump*

Also? These are GOLDEN.

[alryssa.livejournal.com]

I confess I have gotten lazy on this front; I used to feel much the same way, but I'm so bad at replying to emails now, it's kind of a 'do this now or never' thing and a lot of the time I'm on my phone, so it's harder to navigate downwards to make it inline. :P

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

At least you admit it it's a suboptimal means of electronic dialogue.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Work emails and social emails are very different animals. I use Outlook for work email (I don't have a choice) and it's all top-posting. I'm fine with that.