clevermanka | I'm here for angst and porn

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I'm here for angst and porn

Guardian/adjacent:
The English translation is finished!
Fanart: Chibi shared lollipop. Welcome to the denim club.
Zhu Yilong bts video from Dreamlike Life.
One of these four Bai Yu's made me emotionally compromised. Guess which. And then I got hit with this, so ... you're welcome.
This candid shot of Zhu Yilong having fun as Ye Zun makes me so happy I can't even tell you. Getting the zebra hand painted.

A poll for fic writers based on a conversation with

nnozomi! Obviously there will be exceptions to anything and everything, but just as a casual either/or, I'm interested where people fall.

Poll #23614 In general...

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 23

View Respondents

What is the most common rating on the fic you write?

Explicit
7 (30.4%)

Mature
2 (8.7%)

Teen
8 (34.8%)

Gen
6 (26.1%)

Given a choice, would you rather write:

Pining (resolved or not)
8 (34.8%)

Established relationship
15 (65.2%)

I currently fall in the Explicit category *cough* by a wide margin. I don't think I have enough experience to know if it'll hold true for other fandoms, but I know I prefer writing first time fic for Guardian. First-time fic has always been my favorite to read (especially with a good UST buildup), but I didn't want to mix reading habits into the mix.

Speaking of, y'all I am real happy with the first-time scene I wrote yesterday for Deconstruction. In a coffee shop/bar. While my friend finished her fucking dissertation. We both wrapped up our goals within five minutes of each other. Yes, those are celebratory alcoholic beverages at 1:30pm.

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My overall fic split is skewed very heavily toward gen - I have one explicit non-Guardian story.

And then Guardian happened and:

General Audiences (9)
Explicit (8)
Teen And Up Audiences (6)

XD

And: YAY YOU! YAY YOUR FRIEND!!

And then Guardian happened
Seems to be A THEME.

It was so incredible to be sitting across the table from her when she finished! What a thing to share.

I just now realized that in one of my whopping two Established Relationship fics in Guardian, they're role-playing a first time (guess which one?). Same for my Established Relationship History 3 Trapped fic. Obviously they do it more than once in Ghost Story, but it's still very much a getting-together romance. Yeah I think I definitely lean heavily toward first time stories. XD

I definitely write way more established relationship than pining (and for the same reason as

nnozomi, I am really a gen writer at heart poorly masquerading as a shipper!)

But the funny thing is that I don't see those as entirely exclusive of each other? My favorite type of pining is when it's in the context of a relationship. Like, I absolutely love pining between two people who have already had sex but convinced themselves it didn't mean anything to the other person and it's the emotional intimacy they're really pining for. (Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan are so very good for this, especially with the time travel that can put them on totally different places on their emotional journey to a complete relationship...)

two people who have already had sex but convinced themselves it didn't mean anything
Oh, yessssss I love that, too! I'd include that under pining tho. I wouldn't call it established relationship unless both parties consider themselves in a relationship.

Yeah, I agree it's not established relationship then!

But I also love more complicated variants... Like amnesia when there is definitely an ER but one party has tragically forgotten it. Or WeiLan if you assume they get together in either time, so one of them has lived through their first time but the other hasn't yet...

Oh, yeah, the emotional angst was a MAJOR selling point for Guardian for me...

This candid shot of Zhu Yilong having fun as Ye Zun makes me so happy I can't even tell you.

OMG, that is awesome. :D

For the ratings, AO3 tells me:

Teen And Up Audiences (93)
Mature (42)
General Audiences (20)
Explicit (7)

Most of my porn is M-rated. I very rarely rate anything "explicit" - if I think it could easily be more explicit, I generally stick with "mature". (And I've seen people say that the mere mention of genitals already deserves an "explicit" rating, which ... no. I may perhaps err too much in the other direction, but at least I'm not doing that? *g*)

I don't like pining (in the "pining away" sense), and I do like established relationship. But I also like wanting, and I'm way more likely to write about people wanting something for a long time and then finally getting it, than about people having it already. If that gives some context for my answer. :p

Yes, I would agree that wanting can accompany pining but they're definitely not the same thing. I think about Resonant's advice in How To Write A Sex Scene where every sex scene needs to be about wanting something and how helpful that was to me when I started writing!

Most of my porn is M-rated. I very rarely rate anything "explicit" -
Oh that's interesting. My first step when I'm looking for smut is always to filter to E and exclude graphic violence & MCD. I tag all of my smut E because there are explicit descriptions of sex as opposed to fade to black.

For myself, I would rate fade-to-black T. For sex scenes, it depends on how explicitly I describe the physical act whether I go for M or E. I'm not sure I can even explain the line I draw - it's one of those "I know it when I see it" things - but it's mostly that I know I could have made it more physically explicit, but decided not to. If that makes any sense.

I love this description of M vs. E I found on Tumblr.

Hee! I think I would rate the first one T, since it's mainly euphemisms! To me, M isn't coy about what happens, just not detailed. But those are great examples nevertheless.

Yes, that post tends to be just how I see it!

Speaking as someone for whom explicit sex is...not a squick, but it's not something I seek out...I get disappointed from the opposite side if a fic is rated M and then there are named genitalia and other such details. For me, that's what the E rating means, so even if a given story could be even more explicit than that, it's still more than I'm expecting from an M fic. While as if I click on an E-rated fic, I know what I'm in for.

Yeah, I totally grok your stance, and it makes sense to me.

As another data point, when I'm looking for porn, I also exclusively filter to E. I would never bother to filter to M.

*waves from the gen corner*

Established relationship is great because then I don't really need to write it! It's all just background emotional context for the hurt/comfort :D

I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here... XD

If so you are only in the minority in this fandom, I think, which skews a little oddly? I know of multiple fans who won't really read or write ER at all and only want first times, I would've thought that's the majority myself, tbh!

For a slash fandom, Guardian has a lot of usually-gen fans, we're throwing off your data! 😅

I've written 8 fics, 7 Teen, 1 Gen. I'd like to graduate to Mature someday, but I'm still too intimidated to write Explicit. :) I've barely written a kiss!

Give me all of the pining!! I adore it and love to write confessions of feelings. Right now I prefer to write that. I can see writing something where my OTP are friends with benefits but secretly pine after each other. Established relationship would be good, but I'd probably want to throw in a wrench somewhere (but ultimately have a HEA because I'm not interested in fics where my OTP don't have at least a hope of being together).

Oh YES confessions of feelings SO GOOD <3

Oh, you made the poll, excellent! I'm gonna expand on our earlier discussion, and hopefully not contradict myself too much--for me it's something like:
What I can write: established relationship or similar that takes place in the background of gen content, giving me a context to write them together while not focusing centrally on the relationship itself
What I can't: attraction more even than pining? In the strictly sexual sense, or in the sense of limerence? No confidence that I can get it onto the page. Like, a few months back I saw a couple of young women on the subway who were adorably obviously together and obviously on a date, still unusual in this country, just wrapped in this sparkly aura of excitement and attraction and delight. I have no idea how I'd write that and make it work for the reader, although it would probably be a good exercise to try.
("And then Guardian happened": Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan and company are SO MUCH that I'm actually more likely to take risks in writing them than in origfic; the emotions are so big and so there that it's easier to put them in writing.

Yes! Thank you for kicking that off. I love hearing everyone's thoughts.

wrapped in this sparkly aura of excitement and attraction and delight
I...think? you did? write that quite beautifully? =D

Yes yes yes on the big emotions being RIGHT THERE. I love it.

seriously, this discussion is fascinating! Thank you for making it happen.

I...think? you did?
you're very kind! Actually a good way for me to clarify my thinking, at the risk of splitting hairs: writing that view of a couple from the outside is one thing, but take these two girls on the subway, what they were actually doing and saying was quite ordinary, and I would struggle with writing the scene from one of their perspectives and still conveying that sense of limerence without being a) boring or b) clichéd. Maybe I'll try it just for practice...

Yes yes yes on the big emotions being RIGHT THERE. I love it.
I KNOW, and that's one reason I keep writing more Guardian fic when I don't mean to, it's so satisfyingly cathartic when I'm stuck in the details of long-form origfic...

still conveying that sense of limerence
ahhhhhhhh, got it. Yes, I see what you mean, now. Yes, try it for practice! Can't hurt! And I feel like with the fandom here, anyone whose writing you respect for having those would be happy to give you feedback. This fandom is SO GREAT.

Also, congrats to your friend on finishing her dissertation!! \o/

Thank you! We're hanging out tomorrow and I'll tell her people on the internet are cheering her. \o/

I hesitated for ages over the ER vs pining question, because I feel like established relationship is easier (because if I just want to write a short PWP or bit of fluff, it's a lot easier and quicker to do if they're already a couple - there's less talking about feelings, less trying to get Shen Wei past his... everything, and less to negotiate around to get them into bed.) BUT I love pining/UST so much, and it's incredibly fun to write, it just takes more brain somehow.

I just checked out of interest, and my Guardian fics are split almost exactly 50/50 between the two.

YAN I am CLINGING to you as my sole company in E and Pining camps!

there's less talking about feelings, less trying to get Shen Wei past his... everything
I was so proud of myself, keeping Worth the Wait at just over 3k words.

I love pining/UST so much
yesssssssss

My fic is an almost dead even split between Teen & Gen, in terms of rating--I have one more T rated fic than G, lol. I think I find it easier to write established relationship but more fun to write pining, if that's a distinction that makes sense?

Oh, yes, that makes complete sense! The easier option isn't always the most fun (and the fun stuff isn't always easy).

Guardian has also skewed my stats -- toward the G end of the scale. Before this fandom, I was all about the porn!
T - 48
E - 40
M - 30
G - 24

Really loving how Guardian brings the thirst. As a constantly thirsty person I'm delighted to be in so much company.

Hilariously enough, Trapped had really skewed me toward G because of the Househusband series, otherwise the porn would be winning by a wide margin with E.

Well, I guess I'm working on fixing that now, since I've started on Jack and Zhao Zi following up to TY and MSF's roleplay. 😉

HELL YEAH BB \o/

I’m sorry, but I can’t do your poll because what is ‘or not’?!? I would pick pining over established relationship, but the only way I’d write unresolved is in the early parts of a series with a HEA. And my most common rating is explicit.

By "or not" I meant it either resolves (with a kiss, a confession of love, something) or doesn't (continued UST with neither party revealing their feelings). The important part is the Pining, not the Resolution of it (or not). Does that help?

Yaaay writing goals!

I currently fall in the Explicit category *cough* by a wide margin. I know I prefer writing first time fic for Guardian.

Definitely yes to both. :D

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