Writing question

[clevermanka]

Would people be willing to share their opinions about setting Zhubai AUs outside China?

I started writing an RPF AU PWP based on Table One of this meme, Zhu Yilong's L'Oreal Men ad and this Bai Yu photoshoot. I'm having them meet at a wedding and I'd kinda like both parties getting married to be men with both men and women in the wedding party. Difficult to set that in modern-day China of this world.

This wasn't so much an issue with Elsewhere, since I placed it firmly in a European fairy tale tradition. But in this story I'm using the actor names and I feel like that somehow changes things. I have an OC with a very minor part (their mutual friend who is getting married) and I need to name him, too--should I use a Chinese name if theirs are? 

Your thoughts are much appreciated!

Comments

[trobadora]

Honestly, I prefer Guardian RPF to be set in some version of China, but it doesn't have to be real!China - it can be AU!homophobia-free!China.

[kimboo_york]

this was pretty much going to be my recommendation as well - I've read a few RPF fics with this kind of set up to varying degrees, and it did not kick me out of the story (that said, I'm a Westerner of zero Chinese descent, so YMMV).

[goss]

I'd be fine with AU!China.

Maybe they could be attending a wedding that's taking place in some neighbouring Asian or other country. I mean, people travel to exotic locations to get married all the time, right?

(My own parents are from the Caribbean, but got married in England, then honeymooned in Scotland. At the time, a few of our relatives traveled to England just to attend the wedding.)

[glymr]

I had this discussion with Naye once. There's real!China, and then there's fantasy!China, where homosexual relationships are just fine, for example. I've written ZhuBai in both (as much as a Westerner without any deep knowledge of the country can) - Damned if we Do/n't in 'real' (or realish) China and Knock His Sock Off in fantasy!China. FWIW, no one objected to me setting the story in a fantasyish China where an uncensored version of Guardian could be filmed (for example).

I think the only thing to be aware of is internal consistency. You obviously can't use the angst factor of 'we can't be together because gay' in a world where men are freely getting married (unless you lampshade it in some way, which I kind of did in "Damned if we Do/n't", mentioning that things were different than in Europe or the USA). It sounds like that's not where you're planning on going anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. In fact, this sounds like it's going to be a sexy romp, of which I highly approve and am very much looking forward to. <3 The audience you're writing for is mostly going to be people with tastes like yours, and if you wouldn't object to the relative 'realism' of a sexy romp, probably they won't either. (And if they do, they probably have their head too far up their ass and you can ignore them!)

ETA: Actually, I felt more strongly that I had to warn when I DIDN'T set the story in fantasy!China, since thinking about homophobic governments/circumstances can be triggering for some people.

[yantantether]

Just a suggestion - you could set it in Taiwan? Maybe they've both travelled there for a friend's wedding.

[naye]

Since I don't read Chinese, all I have to go on is a few machine translated stories and the fantastic Vegas Wedding fic that Qik's been translating - but looking at those, it seems like Chinese fans are writing plenty of AU!China themselves. So I see no problems with you doing the same? Like, not focusing on the worst part of the world for a bit doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

(Full disclosure: I personally can't handle RPF set in real!China, so I've got an emotional stake in my answer.)

[jo_lasalle]

At this point, I'm not reading C-fandom RPF, because I haven't squared how I feel about real world issues and their interplay-or-not with fic for myself. If I was reading C-fandom RPF, I would probably find it strange if a story put Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu in a non-China setting full of Bobs and Dorises and Peters with no in-story explanation how they got there. (Strange, not 'wrong'. I don't conflate my personal comfort zone with the moral high ground.)

The to-me less strange options would be AU!China (which won't be for everybody) or changing your set-up so it can fit with real!China (which also won't be for everybody).

[solo]

As someone who's written Japan-based RPF for 10 years, I may have something to contribute.

Japan is nowhere near as repressed as China, but homosexuality is still very stigmatized, particularly if you're an 'idol' who is supposed to be notionally 'available' to their - usually female - fans. And largely, we (haikuesque, being me and jo_lasalle)) have worked within these parameters. We once sent them to London to get some refreshing 'omg everyone's gay and so out about it' experience, but even there, the parameters of the local culture were the parameters we used.

But at the same time, others in the fandom were happily writing 'everyone is gay and everyone else knows it and it's wonderful' fic. Sometimes I'd read it - and sometimes it was good! Often I'd bail because I just found it too unrealistic. But that was when these stories were ostensibly set in 'real Japan'.

If you want to invent a fantasy!China - with perhaps some other non-real elements too, like *cough* immortal cultivators or cat shapeshifters - in which being gay is A!Okay, I don't see why not. To me, the less 'resembling real China' it was, the more I'd be able to suspend disbelief about the gay wedding.

You could of course also send them abroad, but then I'd want to know the backstory. :)

[clevermanka]

I want AU!homophobia-free!PLANET yes!

[clevermanka]

I'm probably going with AU!China. Can't easily be a foreign setting (to the characters) bc spoiler. =/

(also, wow! what a wedding adventure! and ❤ to your parents)

[clevermanka]

can't use the angst factor of 'we can't be together because gay'
That's one of the few angst factors I can't handle, so that's easy enough to avoid.

Sexy romp, yes! Mostly! Gotta throw in a little frustration for spice, but, you know...

[clevermanka]

I'd really rather make this a complete fantasy where homophobia doesn't exist. Leaning heavily into comfort porn and all that rn. 😅

[clevermanka]

not focusing on the worst part of the world for a bit doesn't seem like such a bad idea
That was the whole reason I wanted it to be two guys getting married. Or two gals! Make it clear this is Not Our Actual World As It Is Today.

I thought about making the mutual friend a woman getting married to a woman but hilariously, the realistic part I couldn't get past wasn't the lack of homophobia. It was the chances that two women would have two men in their wedding party that anyone (spoiler) would assume to be straight. Ha! Ha ha!

I personally can't handle RPF set in real!China
SAME.

[clevermanka]

I would probably find it strange if a story put Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu in a non-China setting full of Bobs and Dorises and Peters with no in-story explanation how they got there.
I had the same feeling, but then I was like "well why can't they live in a world where Asian people aren't forced to take on alternate names to appease Westerners and can happily party with Greg Smith?" And then I answered my own question with "bc it just feels weird?"

I think I'll be going with AU!China and just make that real clear in the tags.

[clevermanka]

I'm in the "everyone is gay and everyone else knows it and it's wonderful" camp. But I'm also not interested in the cognitive dissonance of claiming to put that story in the real world.

That's a fascinating thought about adding a little bit of fantastical element! Hmmm! I'll think about that...

[naye]

So glad you're going with But What If This WASN'T The Darkest Timeline for this fic! It's so healing to read. ♥

[clevermanka]

I need to start digging through the Zhubai stuff on AO3 to find which fics have "this is a happier world AU!" explicitly tagged.

[tinny]

I see that everyone already blew into the same horn, so I don't need to say anything. :)

There is a post on sid_guardian where it was discussed what tags would make it clear to people whether the story is set in "real" China or "homophobia-free" China, and the consensus was to use "Setting-Typical Homophobia" for the former and "No Homophobia" and/or "Fluff" for the latter. You are not the only one who doesn't want to read stories set in a homophobic world. There aren't many stories in the RPF tag in the first place, but I think most of them (especially the more recent ones) are tagged appropriately.

Last but not least: yay more ZhuBai! \o/

[clevermanka]

Oh, thank you!!! I'll (try to) remember to tag "no homophobia."

[naye]

I would give a lot for such a rec list...just saying!

[clevermanka]

Maybe there's something I can contribute to the fandom! 😁 I've not been reading much lately and I wonder if that's contributing to my malaise.