Fandom rant

[clevermanka]

Last week kazoogrrl commented something about fandom and source creator overlap and I made a short reply about how I don't think that's a good idea. Here is one fantastic Tumblr post that highlights a lot of the why I feel this way, and here is another one. Motherfucking truth bombs, yo.

Also? I wish people would wake up to the fact that Martin Freeman and Amanda Abbington are (probably) selfish, rude trolls. I mean, they're human beings and most of humanity sucks. They're fantastic actors and I love what they do with their roles, but it STOPS THERE, people. You don't have to like the actor. They lie for a living for godssake.

Also also, my response to Amanda's ridiculous complaint that people are really drawing MARTIN and BEN having TEH SEXXINGS and not John and Sherlock and this is so apparent because nobody's drawing BASIL RATHBONE porny pics? I'll just put this here.

Comments

[carmy-w.livejournal.com]

Reading about Abbington's comments makes me like Orlando Jones even more. He really understands that a character is a character, and a fanfic character may or may not be exactly like the TV or movie character, and it doesn't really hurt anyone either way (and DAMN, the fanfic he recs are screaming hot!). Frankly, I love the way he treats the fourth wall as if he's a gazelle, and the fourth wall is a knee-high fence to be sailed over!

Love that cartoon!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Orlando Jones is a special, special, hothouse orchid who deserves to be held in fantastic awe and high regard.

[carmy-w.livejournal.com]

AGREED!

LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[desireearmfeldt]

One wonders whether the actors et al. have twigged to the existence of RPF. Let's not tell 'em... :)

(In all seriousness, I have ambivalent feelings about RPF featuring still-living people: I don't disapprove of it, but I feel odd about it, in this internet age.)

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

RPF kind of squicks me personally, but I don't judge those who indulge in it.

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[desireearmfeldt]

It is mostly not my thing, because I've always been the sort of reader/viewer who really doesn't want to know about the authors and actors as real people. Except then, on the other hand, I like history and the kind of history I like is about individuals, and so then there I am learning about GB Shaw or whoever as a person and that's kind of interesting, or reading Gibson's book about the writing/producing of Two For The Seesaw, and that's pretty interesting stuff. So, my lines of preference get blurry...

Similarly, I don't go out of my way to read RPF, but I've read a little of it, including a few pieces I quite like -- though I suppose the fact that I actually know very little about the actors in question makes it easier to read these things, because they're only very slightly removed from fiction to me.

(I have even written an RPF -- which surprised the heck out of me at the time! -- based on extremely limited knowledge of the real people and situation it referred to. I like how the story came out, but it is the opposite of well-researched, and certainly if I were sitting down to write serious historical fiction I wouldn't do it by the seat of my pants like that. :) )

But I share some of the squick feeling, too, because it does feel weird writing fiction about people who are still around to a) have their reputations affected or b) read about themselves. However remote the possibility of either. It feels like violation in some way -- though I have to say, I sympathize with both sides of the original creator/fanwork creator divide, in that having one's creative work rewritten does feel like violation in some way too.

I don't mean to say "fanwork is not okay," but rather "fanwork has its uncomfortable side." Maybe I see it as similar to when a politician or celebrity has satirical cartoons drawn of them or is criticized in the press: it's okay for those things to happen, and really you shouldn't be surprised when they do happen, but it's still not necessarily fun to have happen to you, and I have sympathy for the not-fun feelings, too.

(Huh, I didn't think I was going to make a big long speech here, when I started this comment...)

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I've always been the sort of reader/viewer who really doesn't want to know about the authors and actors as real people.

Pretty much, yeah. Except for Tom Hiddleston. Who is perfect.

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm with you two on this. I read some Avengers AU stuff were it was too much the actors and not the characters and I felt like I was intruding.

Tom Hiddleston may be too perfect for me, he's just so nice. And well rounded. He must have a flaw in there somewhere.

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I would like to discover his flaws.

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

For your sake, I'd hope they were extensive and very. hard. to find.

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Wait, nope, no flaws.

http://a-wild-hiddlesaurous.tumblr.com/post/75034341926/torrilla-tom-hiddleston-a-god-among-men

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, tell me about it. There's got to be something, but... *sigh*

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[carmy-w.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.
One of the first fanfics I read was a Hiddleston RPF that portrayed him as a possessive mental abuser, and I detested my reaction to it, wondering if there was some truth to the fiction....

Re: LJ wants me to read your posts, so I obliged... :)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty awful. Ugh.

[pennswoods.livejournal.com]

I'm just here for the cute old school Holmes and Watson porn. That's adorbs!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Isn't it just???? You might think about following her if, you don't already. I love her style.

http://ireallyshouldbedrawing.tumblr.com/

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Yes - that charmed the heck out of me, too!

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

This is off in a different direction, but mazarin221b mentioning people having to look for fanfic/art reminded me of a discussion I was having with friends about the Bronie doc (haven't seen it yet). Apparently the doc does not touch on the fact that there is a subsection of (male) Bronie's that feel like MLP needs to cater more to what they want to see, not what the actual target audience of the show wants to see. They are doing such things as putting explicit fanart online and not labeling it as such so that kids looking for MLP related things will find it. Now that? THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM! Parents thing their kids are ok looking up cute pony art but some self involved, gotta be all about them jerks have to fuck it up for everyone else!

I keep thinking that if Freeman and Abington's kids are fairly young, their online time should be supervised so they don't stumble across adult content that may involve the character their dad plays as his job. And if the kids are old enough to go online themselves w/o any parental supervision or blocks or whatever then they are old enough for the parents to sit down and talk to them about this situation. Uncomfortable? Probably, but that's part of the parental duties.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

if Freeman and Abington's kids are fairly young, their online time should be supervised

This is true of any children, though, regardless of if their parents are famous.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Oh yes!

ETA: Which, to me, shows how universal is the situation. Sure, they'll have to touch upon one super-awkward extra component about what is online. But every parent should be monitoring and educating their kids and seriously, I'd think the kids would have to go looking for this fic/art to find out.

One thing I would really worry about is bullying from other kids who know it's out there, I can imagine being a child and mortified if teased about such a thing.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Honestly, though? I just don't see that as a problem in the current cultural climate. Even if it was, here (http://heidi8.tumblr.com/post/74786669047/amandas-entitled-to-her-opinion-same-as-anyone) is a good discussion of this. Nobody should ever censor their art or themselves because of some pearl-clutching "but think of the children!" mentality.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I definitely do not think people should censor to "think of the children!".* Other people should not curtail their creative endeavors because a parent doesn't want to be involved, or have "the talk", or deal with things that make them uncomfortable. It's like expecting school to teach your kids about sex and not wanting to put on your big kid pants and talk about it at home, too.


* I can't be the only person who hears Bill Hicks' voice in my head whenever I see that phrase, can I?

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Bill Hicks. Another dead hero.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

On the flip side, the outtake from Thor2 that was posted today made me do a little dance around the break room at work.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!

I can't find a video of it to put on LJ. They're all weird and won't embed. D'you have one?

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Only what I saw on The Mary Sue, will that one work?

http://www.themarysue.com/tom-hiddleston-captain-america-cameo/

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

YES! Thanks. I'll use that tomorrow.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

This other deleted scene popped up today:
http://www.themarysue.com/thor-the-dark-world-deleted-scene/

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

I hope the blu-ray release includes this - important to know that Frigga taught Loki these things, and deepens the whole family dynamic.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

It's in the actual myths, too.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Are films considered canon too, not just the comics? Are movie extras also cannon? Because this definitely seems to add to the relationship that fans have built, which makes me happy.

Also, I ended up on this Wikipedia entry the other day and it definitely added to my understanding of the many many ways in which Loki is an outsider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergi

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Yep. Norse lore is fascinating. There's a great fic that references argr, briefly--The Captain and the Man of Iron (http://archiveofourown.org/works/384402). It's hysterical and not really porny at all. Just funny.

When it comes to any fandom that has multiple incarnations, "canon" is pretty much applied only to the particular incarnation. So, for Sherlock fandom, ACD canon isn't necessarily canon to BBC Sherlock (although we mine it for possibilities), and Ritchie-verse Sherlock canon isn't interchangeable with BBC, etc. I imagine it's the same with the Marvel comics vs. movies.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out tonight!

[mckitterick.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link!

"But that still doesn’t explain why this scene required Tom Hiddleston to wear his own Captain America suit."

Hahaha! He's such a big, dorky fan that I bet he requested it.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading an interview where he said just that, but I don't have time to look for it now. Pretty positive your impression is correct, though.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed he could fit in it, I think of him and whathisface as being very different physically.

Now, I KNOW you've seen the gif of him from his Thor audition, yes?

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. And all I can think is THANK GOD he was recast as Loki because OH HONEY NO.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

I mean, physically yes but in the face? No.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Even physically no. I mean, he's trim and wiry but Thor needs bulk and some people just aren't capable of looking like Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth, no matter how much time they spend at the gym.

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Sorry, what were you saying? I got distracted after trim and wiry. ;)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

Just read the piece about the mythical normal fan you reblogged on Tumblr and I LOVE it! I love the engagement of the students!

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Isn't that fascinating? Glad you liked it!

[kazoogrrl.livejournal.com]

I wish my college professors would have been as interested in getting their students excited and involved in literature. OK, I did have the medieval women's lit prof who was super excited when I brought her a copy of Nick Cave's "Christina the Astonishing" when we were discussing her in class.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

My mom DVR'd and LIKED the last two episodes of Sherlock, so I'm finally watching! YAY! <3

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Hurray! This is kind of a weird season to start with, though.