clevermanka: default (tongue)
[personal profile] clevermanka
Hi! So so so busy, but here is an article on compassion-baiting that I thought was important. I was once told that I had a problem "holding onto anger" and it was intimated that I was less of a person because I didn't want to associate with a person who had verbally and aggressively harassed a friend of mine over artistic interpretations of a tarot deck. So fuck a bunch of that "just let it go" and "everyone is fighting a hard battle so be kind" bullshit. I get angry about some things and I stay angry about some things. Honestly, I don't care if you think less of me because there are some things I won't forgive or forget. Actually, knowing that you think less of me because of that makes my life easier because I then I can write off your irritating flowers-and-sunshine ass.

Today's Tumblr collection is Tuesday, March 25: AU Gifsets.

Date: 2014-03-25 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] femfataleatron.livejournal.com
Hahahahahahha ha ha ha ! Ha, snort. Cough.

"

Date: 2014-03-25 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] femfataleatron.livejournal.com
I'm totally losing my battle to be kind. I should NOT have skipped leg day!

Date: 2014-03-25 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
I lost that Battle to be Kind YEARS ago. And by "lost," mean "never bothered to show up for the fight." It's one reason [livejournal.com profile] mckitterick and work well together. He's TOO kind, IMO.

But neither of us skip leg day, man. COME ON.

Date: 2014-03-25 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pointoforigin.livejournal.com
Actually, knowing that you think less of me because of that makes my life easier because I then I can write off your irritating flowers-and-sunshine ass. Oh, snap! ; ) I saw a sign that I liked in a store recently. It said: "Maybe your boots are made for walking, but my boots are in case I need to kick your ass." That was an excellent article. So well said. Thanks for linking to it. I am a big believer in compassion, but compassion doesn't mean giving assholes what they want. Enabling is not compassion.

I grew up in the Christian tradition, and I have been very disturbed by how the idea of forgiveness has been used in that tradition as another stick to beat victims with. It's ALWAYS dragged out for sexual abuse. "Oh, why can't you just forgive your rapist and go away and shut up?" Apparently that's what Jesus would want. But when it comes to the people in power forgiving someone who dissed them? Oh, that's never going to happen.

I work on disengaging from anger for myself. Because I have lived with so much anger for so long, and it's bad for me. For me, anger is like a relationship, and I don't want to have that relationship any more. I just want those people/events OUT of my life and out of my head. But that is way different from denying all anger or thinking people don't have a right to their anger. I think you are MORE of a person for not backing down. I'll be right there with you--with my boots on.

Date: 2014-03-25 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
I've read some interesting interpretations about that Turn The Other Cheek business. Here's one of them (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message665517/pg1), from an xtian source, even.

Ass-kicking boots FUCK YES. It's important to learn to use anger--not let it consume us.

Date: 2014-03-25 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zitronenhai.livejournal.com
It's important to learn to use anger--not let it consume us.

I have intermittently struggled with doing that.

Date: 2014-03-25 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
It's a lesson that isn't learned early or easily.

Date: 2014-03-25 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] msmitti.livejournal.com
The Buddhist references were lost on me but I think that was an interesting article and a perspective that I have never gotten to see/read/hear. It spoke to many things that I have noticed but never could articulate well (meaning, carry my point in a discussion--invariably, it came down to me looking like a small/petty/spiritually unaware person) or felt weird or inadequate about addressing because it wasn't polite to do so.

There *is* such a thing as righteous anger.

I also liked the discussion about compassion-baiting as being dismissive of someone's pain because it is instead a litmus test of their spiritual awareness (or whatever phrase was used). I had way more to say, but it turned into a diatribe.

Date: 2014-03-25 04:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
Turning an oppressed group's anger against them by saying their anger makes them unreasonable is a well-known way of keeping oppressed groups (women, POC, etc.) in their place. "Well, if you'd just BE CALM and talk about this issue LIKE A REASONABLE PERSON instead of getting ALL ANGRY..." etc.

Image

Date: 2014-03-25 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gansje.livejournal.com
ABSOLUTELY.

And then when you say in a nice way, "please don't," or "here's a countering argument," or "that's not ok," then they're all, "we'll just have to agree to disagree!"

There is no agreeing to disagree with treating other people badly. JUST. IS. NOT.

Thank you so much for posting this! You are such a remarkable person!

Date: 2014-03-25 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
Wow! You're welcome!

Image

Date: 2014-03-25 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-lucky-nun.livejournal.com
Thanks for linking that article! I really needed to see that today. I've been getting pushback at work when I advocate for myself and others, and a lot of the feedback from above chooses to focus on my reaction to the bad situation versus dealing with/working to change the situation itself. This article was a good reminder that people in power will focus on reactions to bad situations as a tactic to deflect blame or lob the ball back in your court.

Date: 2014-03-25 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
Yay! So happy I could help with an issue in a timely manner.

FIGHT THE MAN

Date: 2014-03-25 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miischelle.livejournal.com
I love you.

Date: 2014-03-25 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gansje.livejournal.com
I find that people NEVER tell you you're too angry or you should let things go unless they want to exploit your vulnerabilities in some way. As in:

Asshole: "You know, you're a rotten excuse for a human being."
You/Me: "Hey, back off -- that's a terrible thing to say."
Asshole: "GOD, you're so SENSITIVE! Can't you take a joke?"

Often, people calling for your compassion are those who want to walk all over you. What the marginalized always call for is perspective, because once you have perspective, good things (hopefully) follow, driven by a compassion no one has to request.

Date: 2014-03-25 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
FUCKING PREACH, SISTER.

Image

Date: 2014-03-25 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gansje.livejournal.com
I got the cat hi-five .gif! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

I so love this .gif, you have no idea. I've been trying to get my Westie to do this with me but she's not too bright and tries to lick my hand instead. Dog, ow, that must hurt some, so stop.

Date: 2014-03-25 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] msmitti.livejournal.com
"What the marginalized always call for is perspective, because once you have perspective, good things (hopefully) follow, driven by a compassion no one has to request"

This is so true. Thank you for putting it so concisely that I can file it away in my brain to tell people why these things are problematic.

Date: 2014-03-25 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gansje.livejournal.com
Awww, you're so kind, you and CM just totally made my day. <3

Date: 2014-03-25 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zitronenhai.livejournal.com
That reminds me a little of that graphic I posted, about burning bridges. I certainly can be compassionate, but I do have boundaries, and in any event, I *hate* to be baited.

This reminds me a little of that graphic I posted about the burned bridges.

*snort* Bridge of the River WHY

LOL

*falls over*

Date: 2014-03-25 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
I loved that graphic. Posting it here because more people need to see it.

Image

Date: 2014-03-25 07:30 pm (UTC)
moodsong: (Default)
From: [personal profile] moodsong
Sweet.

Date: 2014-03-25 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gansje.livejournal.com
LOVE this!

Date: 2014-03-26 02:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redheadfae.livejournal.com

And if I burn that bridge behind me, I've only had to pay the toll once, and not ever again.

Date: 2014-04-23 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tessa gratton (from livejournal.com)
Oh that is wonderful.

Date: 2014-03-26 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kazoogrrl.livejournal.com
I feel like the bulk of my compassion goes towards my rescue/fostering work. Sadly being involved with that makes me end up with even less compassion for people and the effed up things they do.

Also, I am SO not the nice person some people think I am. I do tend to be fairly relaxed about people (because I figure the assholes aren't worth my time) except when they are really screwed up and then I fully inhabit my righteous rage and hold onto it for as long as I want.

Date: 2014-03-26 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kazoogrrl.livejournal.com
Hater (of certain people)for lyfe!

Date: 2014-03-26 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com
I don't forgive or forget either, at least not some things. Other people may be having their own struggles and whatnot, but if you screw with me or mine, I'm done with you. Period.
From: [identity profile] fairgoldberry.livejournal.com
Everyone is fighting a battle, so I try to be *kinder than necessary*. Not "kind" as a blanket idea, kinder than necessary.

Sometimes the kindness that's necessary is "I did not set you on fire before I kicked you down the stairs," so being kinder than that looks like "I didn't even kick you down the stairs. You're welcome, motherfucker."

And the 'kinder than necessary' needs to start with me; most of the people who hamstring themselves with anguished compassion forget that. I'm kind to me, so I cut abusive assholes out of my life. I don't hold grudges, I don't sit around nursing my hate, I just raze this relationship to the ground, tear people who don't improve the garden out by the roots, and leave the soil open for other things to grow. That's not unkind; unkindness would be letting someone continue to abuse me or others without consequences, so that they never have the chance to learn and improve.

Compassion, for me, means being able to see where another person is coming from and understand how their experience is affecting their choices and actions.

Sometimes, I see that they are coming from a place of entitled privilege, and I understand that their experience has made them an asshole. I can take a moment and think, "Boy, I sure do have empathy for you, asshole, because you've got to live the rest of your life without the respect and friendship of people like me, and I do hope you learn to make better choices."

Perhaps I'm just reframing it so I don't have to face being what turns out to be an unkind person, but I found that about 9 years ago, when I made kindness to myself a priority, I had a lot less trouble feeling torn between 'being kind and compassionate' (and therefore a good person in the eyes of the enlightened ones) and being put in situations where I felt I was being harmed.

You, as ever, are an excellently strong and fabulous person, by the way.

Love,
Rowan
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
Spot on, as usual, Rowan. I especially loved this: Sometimes the kindness that's necessary is "I did not set you on fire before I kicked you down the stairs," so being kinder than that looks like "I didn't even kick you down the stairs. You're welcome, motherfucker."

Image

You, as ever, are an excellently strong and fabulous person, by the way.

Aw. Thank you!

Date: 2014-03-26 09:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-03-27 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alryssa.livejournal.com
ugh I can't tell you how often I've been told to 'stop being so angry' and how things would TOTALLY go WAY better if I'd be 'less angry' and frankly I'm so over that shit it ain't funny. Especially the 'forgiveness' angle. That gets on my tits so much; there's always that patronising undercurrent, that inference that I'm not a good person because I choose not to forgive someone for royally fucking me over.


Date: 2014-04-23 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tessa gratton (from livejournal.com)
I've never thought about compassion-baiting before - how interesting. And obvious seeming now.

I think there's a huge difference between "forgiving you" and "ever trusting you again."

We (society) tend to think forgiveness isn't real unless we welcome the person who needs forgiving back into our lives with open arms.

I have at this point forgiven the vast majority of abuses I've experienced (large and small), including those done to my loved ones. But "I forgive" is not an invitation. I can forgive somebody who has been heinous when I realize that I've let go of the real fury, the anger, and come to terms with never opening my heart to that person again. To me, forgiveness is about healing my own emotional wounds, and a lot of healed wounds NEED that scar tissue so I can keep living.

Date: 2014-04-23 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clevermanka.livejournal.com
FUCKING PREACH.

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