clevermanka | Wednesday Update

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Wednesday Update

I don't remember who hadn't seen the preliminary costume checks for Shen Wei/Hei Pao Shi (part of the Hei Pao Shi one is in

bonibaru 's Leave the Light On vid) but

sakana17 made a post with the earlier suit fittings and rejected glasses. Go for the awkwardness, stay for the glory of the wardrobe department's final decisions.

Voice dubbing in Chinese media fascinates me. I think my interest is a combination of thinking how at least Western actors would ruffle at this. Someone else speaking their lines? Wouldn't that sacrifice the integrity of their art??? (idk that all actors would feel this way, but you know a lot who would) and my own issues with the way my voice sounds. Do most voice actors dub the same actor in different roles? Or does the voice change from show to show (or ads)? Who (if anyone) did their own dubbing for Guardian?

My writing habits have gone to hell after finishing Ghost Story. I intentionally took some time off writing (off anything, really), and then the holidays plus visitors plus illness threw everything off for much longer than I'd planned. My energy is returning to pre-NYE illness levels finally (although I did collapse into a 2-hour nap yesterday before going to Tessa's book launch last night so maybe I should watch what I say) and I'm ready to slip into a better schedule (that much is definitely true).

I hope to integrate some other things into my schedule, too. Like relearning Spanish, again, finally. My Spanish used to be actually pretty good, it's just a matter of pulling all that back to usable memory. I want to get back to the gym, too, but that's not happening for a couple more weeks. At least I had the strength to do some mobility work a few times since I got back home, and that felt good.

Y'all will be happy to hear that I moved the first of Shen Wei's breakdowns in Deconstruction of Hei Pao Shi to waaaay earlier in the story and now it happens in chapter three instead of, like, chapter five or six. Whew! This is my first hurt/comfort fic to write and it's interesting to see how different (for this fic, anyway) the pacing demands are for it versus pining (because they're both happening at the same time--Shen Wei's going through A Lot in this fic you guys).

Lastly, that social media AU twitfic I posted about a while ago is complete (556 entries) and it was amazing. I could go on for paragraphs about how much I love everything about the style of storytelling, but I'm sure it's nothing that hasn't been said before. I'll just leave it at God Damn I Love Fandom and leave it at that. If you haven't started the story, let me warn for some people (Xiao Xingchen) making bad decisions about sex. It works in the story, but I wasn't expecting it amidst all the fluff so if you need a warning for that sort of thing, there you go. I LOVED THIS STORY and how much it couldn't have been told with the same efficacy in plain text. The author is planning to make a YouTuber AU next, they have other, similar AUs already written and yes, I am now a fan.

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I'm working on the AU twitfic, it's a lot to get through while trying not to tip off my coworkers what I'm up to.

I'm not much for epistolary fiction in any genre, but for some reason Twitter and text message fics can both work for me. It might be the visual aspect, how actions can be incorporated, and how they can flow quickly.

I love epistolary fiction when it hits the right notes for me and this got them all in every octave. =D Glad you're enjoying it!

Oh, regarding the dubbing thread: I feel in The Untamed it's not as bad though I still get that uncanny valley of how the audio sounds laid over the visual, it's like there's a layer that separates them that distracts me, even though it feels like they are doing a good job with the audio work. I do feel that the voice actors they use sound a lot closer to what I would expect from the actors, that was a big problem for me with Guardian (and the audio just not being as good). The biggest issue in TU for me is whenever there is a kid, their voices are the worst!

Now I'm going to be listening for A-Yuan's voice...

Who (if anyone) did their own dubbing for Guardian?

I believe that of the main cast (Shen Wei and the SID) the characters who're dubbed by different people than we see are Da Qing, Guo Changcheng, and Lin Jing.

I'm glad you're starting to feel better! *hugs*

I read somewhere that Guo Changcheng was dubbed because people thought the actor's voice is too deep for the character. XD

That's what I've heard too. (Possibly the same source.)

BTW, I love that icon of Da Qing and Zhao Yunlan in your icon SO MUCH. That scene 100% informed the way I wrote their relationship in Ghost Story and sort of now, in Canadian Shack. ETA: am I ever going to remember to call these stories by their actual names? signs point to no. /o\

Edited 2020-01-08 16:33 (UTC)

Voice dubbing in Chinese media fascinates me.
Same! I've got an interest in voice acting in general, and the fact that China comes from a dubbing live action tradition is fascinating to me. I guess a lot of it has to do with the Cantonese/Mandarin divide, and I've heard that actors can have very hard-to-understand or prominent local dialects...but still!

I think my interest is a combination of thinking how at least Western actors would ruffle at this.
Not just Western. There's an interview with one of the Nirvana in Fire stars where he rips into the director (a personal friend of his) for choosing to dub his performance. Like, Jin Dong is pissed. And you'll notice that now that Zhu Yilong and Bai Yu have reached a certain level of fame they're both choosing to record their own lines - Zhu Yilong has been dubbed in a lot of his previous roles, and Bai Yu in at least some of them.

I am way too ill informed to make any statements about it, but it makes me curious if it's a generational thing or a personal stand on dubbing or what? (Though I heard most of the Untamed cast is dubbed and that those actors appreciated it, but I have neither watched Untamed nor read the interviews in question, so just have this second hand.)

Good luck with the writing! Sounds like you're doing GREAT! :D

Ahhh! This information makes it so! much! interesting! What a fascinating aspect to the art of acting that I'd never thought much about. I love it.

I'm writing TWO STORIES right now, naye. Two. Stories. In two different fandoms! What is happening???

What's really interesting is that Western actors will often go through a lot of effort and study to research an accent and adopt an accent for a particular role, to varying levels of success. The British are way better at American accents than vice versa, but like, accents and inflections of voice are expected of actors in the Western world. You are expected to go through that work.

I think that dubbing became the norm in Chinese media because of the Cantonese/Mandarin divide, and there was a long period of Communism where there wasn't much entertainment being made out of the Mainland, it was all being made in Hong Kong, and in order to be understandable to the Mandarin-speaking population, it had to be dubbed. My guess is that once the Chinese entertainment industry really started up again, all the well-known household names were from Hong Kong or Taiwan, and not from the mainland. My family watched a lot of Chinese media growing up, and I can literally only name one actress from Mainland China from the 80's and early 90's.

I think that as the result of the dubbing thing being normal, it just...kind of became a thing of convenience. It means that you can hire a famous actor from Hong Kong and just dub over them. It means that you can cast a Korean idol, and it doesn't matter that they can't speak the language. It means that you don't need to worry about having a silent set when the camera's rolling, and that drone or plane passing overhead won't ruin your takes. You can cast an actor who has the right look but not the right voice (if you ever see interviews of Chen Long, who plays Commander Meng in NiF, and his voice and accent...). It's just...easier.

I think as a result, there is less accent-learning amongst Chinese actors. I guess they just don't bother?

And audiences became so used to hearing standard Mandarin dialect in their films and TV shows due to dubbing, that they actually don't like hearing non-standard dialect. I actually cringed in Guardian the first time that Shen Wei spoke, because I could immediately tell that he had a non-standard dialect. And I thought, "Oh, that guy's not from the capital." I actually thought, the first time Wang Kai spoke in Nirvana in Fire, that the actor was from Taiwan (turns out I couldn't tell at the time the difference between Wuhan and Taiwan, LOL). But it's...REALLY obvious.

I had a hard time understanding the dialogue in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon because all the main actors had different accents. Imagine a scenario where all the characters are supposed to be from Los Angeles, but you're hearing Brooklyn, a Texan Twang, and a Scottish brogue. Um...WHAAAAT?

I also cringed in Red Cliff at Takeshi Kaneshiro's accent, and I know and was prepared for it.

I have heard different dub voices for the same actor in different shows, and it's really jarring. They tend not to keep the same person, they are casting different voice actors based upon the role.

I get the feeling that some actors are now being much more protective of their art. Once you reach a certain level of prestige and desirability, you can probably dictate the conditions in your contract. I'm sure that Hu Ge, ZYL, Bai Yu, and a few other Mainland actors have reached that stage where they can use their own voices.

But dubbing is still the norm, particularly for TV shows.

Edited 2020-01-08 21:37 (UTC)

I think that as the result of the dubbing thing being normal, it just...kind of became a thing of convenience.
This whole paragraph is one of the aspects I'm really enjoying about media outside what I've been fed most of my life. All these tiny, incidental factors that let me see the world through a different lens. I love it, and it makes me so much less interested in consuming media that doesn't offer me similar things.

I actually cringed in Guardian the first time that Shen Wei spoke, because I could immediately tell that he had a non-standard dialect. And I thought, "Oh, that guy's not from the capital."
I remembering hearing this a while ago (perhaps from you? idk) and I wonder...do you think this was intentional? To set the character apart from everyone else (even other Dixingren)?

Imagine a scenario where all the characters are supposed to be from Los Angeles, but you're hearing Brooklyn, a Texan Twang, and a Scottish brogue. Um...WHAAAAT?
Oh good lord *laugh*shudder*

I wonder...do you think this was intentional?
I don't know whether this was intentional, or whether it was simply Zhu Yilong deciding that he had enough clout, as one of the main leads, to dub himself.

Thanks for that dubbing thread! It bothered me that I couldn't find the names of most of the voice actors for either The Untamed or Guardian on any English site. Voice actors work their butts off, and deserve recognition.

I found it strange when I first learnt about it, because Western actors often take so much pride in mastering accents and other vocal quirks as part of the work of creating a whole character... but really, how different is it from using a stunt double? Or, hell, a makeup artist? Film and TV characters ALWAYS belong to more than one artist. I think I like that about them.

We had the very same series of reactions to finding out about dubbing. =D

Film and TV characters ALWAYS belong to more than one artist. I think I like that about them.
Oh I love that way of thinking about it!

Yeah, one of the things that surprises me is that they don't credit the voice actors, so it's very, very difficult for a foreigner like me to find out who they are.

They absolutely deserve recognition, and it's ad they don't get it.

but really, how different is it from using a stunt double?

Yeah, I agree, I think it's just the cultural difference with what's considered part of the repertoire or core competency of an actor.

Voice dubbing in Chinese media fascinates me.

I remember being really surprised to find out they dubbed Wang Yibo and Xiao Zhan in The Untamed, because I thought, you have hired two people who literally make a living from their voices, why would you do that? But then I read about the dialects, and how it's not standard practice in the Chinese entertainment industry to learn another dialect for a role, and learning another dialect is already a harder thing than learning a different accent, so I can't blame them. Plus, that got me thinking about the frequency with which fandom will critique an actor's attempt (or lack thereof) at a non-native accent in Western entertainment, and how often the quality of the accents in a production reflect the budget/prestige. It really made me check any reflexive impulse to judge non-dubbing as "better" or more "artistically authentic." Because if the point of the production is to create as representationally complete a narrative as possible, then wouldn't the voice that best reflects the character in pitch, timber, expressiveness, and dialect and accent be the most desirable? Is it more important that one actor's work is accurately represented, or that the desired portrayal of the character is achieved? No real conclusions, just assumptions the dubbing practice has made me question, I think for the better.

My writing habits have gone to hell after finishing Ghost Story.

You and me both. I have added a few words here and there to the various epics I have going (four fix-its across two fandoms!), but I have no focus at all. I think it's time to drabble.

Y'all will be happy to hear that I moved the first of Shen Wei's breakdowns in Deconstruction of Hei Pao Shi to waaaay earlier in the story

::rubs hands in glee::

Lastly, that social media AU twitfic I posted about a while ago is complete (556 entries) and it was amazing.

OMG it is. I laughed, I cried (especially because I just finished the Yi City arc in my rewatch last night), I headdesked at WWX. I'm excited to see what they do with the YouTuber AU.

No real conclusions, just assumptions the dubbing practice has made me question, I think for the better.
It's one of the things I'm very much enjoying about all the non-western media I've been consuming lately (besides the pretty). I get to think about all sorts of things from different angles.

Best wishes getting back into your writing groove and enjoy your drabbling! That sounds delightful.

I'm looking forward to the YouTuber one, too, but am WAITING UNTIL THIS ONE'S DONE. XD

(it's a very gentle breakdown, tho, more to come later!)

I'm also trying not to completely lose my Spanish and I'm finding an app called simply Radio Spain super great because it has a bunch of different Spanish radio stations and I can just stick it on in a morning when I'm pottering around, and keep my ear in without doing anything that feels actually like effort!

I'm going to try that when I feel a little less at sea with it. Right now I have trouble even picking out words *sigh* Once I started to lose it, it went so fast!

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