clevermanka (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
clevermanka) wrote2008-09-11 09:30 am
clevermanka) wrote2008-09-11 09:30 am
With liberty and justice for all
And here I thought Matt Damon couldn't get any sexier. Thanks to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
medousamedea for the heads-up.
Speaking of the wonderfulness of (some) men, I wanted to point out a specific line from Steinem's essay that I posted yesterday. "Women can't be equal outside the home until men are equal in it." That has nothing to do with Palin or McCain. It has nothing to do with getting a black man or a woman in the White House. It has nothing to do with bipartisan politics. It has everything to do with the dream of someday finding ourselves in a space of equal justice and fair treatment for all.
I used to be one of those "Men are stupid" Feminists. I used to believe that men and women were different species. The whole "men are from mars" business? I bought it. Totally. I thought Feminism was us versus them.
But the more I observed my own self, the experience and opinion of trans-sexual friends, the fluidity of gender, and humanity in general--the more I honestly observed without imposing my own bias of "boys are different and dumb," the more I realized that neither sex has cornered the market on stupidity or the capacity for good.
Feminism (and I call myself a Feminist, loud and proud) should not be about putting women above men. The goal of Feminism should not be to allow women a chance to indulge in a vengeance game. Feminism should not give people license to wear shirts that say "Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them." I admit at the moment I might be willing to sport one that said "McCain supporters are stupid. Throw truth at them." I'm not perfect after all. But if people--not just women, but all of humanity: men, women, and everyone else--are to achieve equal justice, we cannot allow the balance to tip to either side, even if at times the thought of a little Power Over sounds comforting and delicious.
How did I get from there to here? The turning point for me was when I was in my early twenties, working retail in Kansas City. A black man was in my department and we would often chat and be sarcastic together. In one of our conversations, he mentioned that I was the type of woman people would consider a Feminazi. I was dumbfounded and horrified. I wanted to say "But I'm fighting for your rights, too! Don't you see we're all in this together?" I realized that no, he didn't see. Because even though I had moved away from thinking that all men were idiots, I was still caught in the trap of making jokes about men, denigrating men, and generally talking the talk of female superiority. In short: I wasn't helping myself, I wasn't helping him, and I certainly wasn't helping Feminism.
This is why Steinem's quote about the need for male equality needs to be emphasized, separate from the current political situation. As women, we cannot fairly demand from men an equality that we ourselves are not willing to share. Yes, it is terrifying to give up that one, tiny, precious commodity that women have traditionally held superior (regardless of whether we wanted it or not). This superiority is ingrained in our culture. Look at how many television shows are based on the idea of The Dumb Dad/Husband who must constantly be saved by The Smart Mom/Wife. They've become archetypes! Boys and girls grow up watching men bumble around the home. Boys learn that it's acceptable--preferred even--for them to be domestically helpless. Girls learn to be proudly indulgent. This is not the way to achieve equality for anybody.
If women Feminists hope to reach the goal of equality, we must embrace the idea of equality everywhere, for everyone. We must not allow ourselves to fall back into the comfort of an us versus them mentality. We must push ourselves to enter into an area of possible discomfort by allowing men the opportunity to explore and enjoy something that has traditionally been our domain. After all, how can we, in fairness, ask men to give us an equality that we ourselves are not willing to share? In fairness, we cannot. By demanding equality outside the home when we are not willing to demand equality inside the home puts Feminists in the position of being no different than those who believe we don't deserve equality at all.
medousamedea for the heads-up. Speaking of the wonderfulness of (some) men, I wanted to point out a specific line from Steinem's essay that I posted yesterday. "Women can't be equal outside the home until men are equal in it." That has nothing to do with Palin or McCain. It has nothing to do with getting a black man or a woman in the White House. It has nothing to do with bipartisan politics. It has everything to do with the dream of someday finding ourselves in a space of equal justice and fair treatment for all.
I used to be one of those "Men are stupid" Feminists. I used to believe that men and women were different species. The whole "men are from mars" business? I bought it. Totally. I thought Feminism was us versus them.
But the more I observed my own self, the experience and opinion of trans-sexual friends, the fluidity of gender, and humanity in general--the more I honestly observed without imposing my own bias of "boys are different and dumb," the more I realized that neither sex has cornered the market on stupidity or the capacity for good.
Feminism (and I call myself a Feminist, loud and proud) should not be about putting women above men. The goal of Feminism should not be to allow women a chance to indulge in a vengeance game. Feminism should not give people license to wear shirts that say "Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them." I admit at the moment I might be willing to sport one that said "McCain supporters are stupid. Throw truth at them." I'm not perfect after all. But if people--not just women, but all of humanity: men, women, and everyone else--are to achieve equal justice, we cannot allow the balance to tip to either side, even if at times the thought of a little Power Over sounds comforting and delicious.
How did I get from there to here? The turning point for me was when I was in my early twenties, working retail in Kansas City. A black man was in my department and we would often chat and be sarcastic together. In one of our conversations, he mentioned that I was the type of woman people would consider a Feminazi. I was dumbfounded and horrified. I wanted to say "But I'm fighting for your rights, too! Don't you see we're all in this together?" I realized that no, he didn't see. Because even though I had moved away from thinking that all men were idiots, I was still caught in the trap of making jokes about men, denigrating men, and generally talking the talk of female superiority. In short: I wasn't helping myself, I wasn't helping him, and I certainly wasn't helping Feminism.
This is why Steinem's quote about the need for male equality needs to be emphasized, separate from the current political situation. As women, we cannot fairly demand from men an equality that we ourselves are not willing to share. Yes, it is terrifying to give up that one, tiny, precious commodity that women have traditionally held superior (regardless of whether we wanted it or not). This superiority is ingrained in our culture. Look at how many television shows are based on the idea of The Dumb Dad/Husband who must constantly be saved by The Smart Mom/Wife. They've become archetypes! Boys and girls grow up watching men bumble around the home. Boys learn that it's acceptable--preferred even--for them to be domestically helpless. Girls learn to be proudly indulgent. This is not the way to achieve equality for anybody.
If women Feminists hope to reach the goal of equality, we must embrace the idea of equality everywhere, for everyone. We must not allow ourselves to fall back into the comfort of an us versus them mentality. We must push ourselves to enter into an area of possible discomfort by allowing men the opportunity to explore and enjoy something that has traditionally been our domain. After all, how can we, in fairness, ask men to give us an equality that we ourselves are not willing to share? In fairness, we cannot. By demanding equality outside the home when we are not willing to demand equality inside the home puts Feminists in the position of being no different than those who believe we don't deserve equality at all.
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The good things I see in feminist theory are the places where it's only getting more complicated. But complicated doesn't translate into results. Ever. That's why McCain is neck-and-neck with Obama in the polls. He's simple, and he has a simple, brutal message that people understand. "Liberalism" is complicated. Feminism SHOULD be complicated. But complicated it hard to swallow - because nobody wants to listen for more than 30 seconds.
Anyway. I agree with you.
AND - this is really why I feel ok most days giving up my academic pursuits to tell stories. I can convey complicated messages in a YA novel. It works sometimes - I can trace my own intellectual progress directly along what novels I was reading at the time. (I don't think I need to make this argument to you. You know this. Heh.)
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I interpreted her quote differently. I know a lot of women who would be more than thrilled to give equality in the household--including me. However, my experience, and the experience of a lot of my female acquaintances-particularly those with children--is that the men/husbands will not accept that gift of equality. I know there are studies to support that as well. Women with careers/jobs still have the majority of the work involving the household and children fall on them.
I read it as a call for men to step up to the task of sharing equally in the household and not a call for women to give up control in the household. And I think having men in power that lead and show that men should take an equal part in their home life is wonderful.
I could probably fill up your entire comments page with thoughts and rants about women with careers and the balancing of home life, but I'll hold back.
What I will say is that I have a daughter who I'm going to teach to cook, organize, clean, mow the lawn, change a tire (unless they are the lucky ones to get the flying cars), program a computer, run a meeting, and never be too scared to always learn something new. I also have a son who I'm going to teach to cook, organize, clean, mow the lawn, change a tire (again, flying cars--whee!), program a computer, run a meeting and never be too scared to always learn something new.
Now, let's all hold hands and sing, "I believe the children are our future...la-la-la, la-la, la-la...la...[don't know the rest of the words]."
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Please post it on your own blog. As I said to
I can certainly see how someone with your experience would interpret this differently than I did. I agree with you. I don't think our points of view are exclusive at all. And I think you're an awesome mom.
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You know me, I don't get very angry very often.
A few days after Evelyn was born, we were at home with her. I was holding her and, like all babies do, she got a little upset. Someone who was visiting us immediately piped up with "oops! What's daddy doing wrong? Better give her to me."
I almost kicked her out of my house. Do you know what I went through to have a chance to hold that daughter? Really? And people think "oops! What's daddy doing wrong?" is cute and funny? Trust me, with the exception of producing breast milk, I'm *at least* as capable as anyone else of taking care of my daughter, and I just don't tolerate that kind of insidious "humor". How about encouraging men to be good fathers instead?
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My maternal great-grandmother died when my Nana was young. Grandpapa raised Nana as a single father and didn't remarry until Nana went to college. Let the multiple implications of that settle in. 1920s/30s. Single father. Daughter went on to post-secondary education.
Fathers = equally capable, equally dedicated.
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Nope. It's someone quite important to us who just happens to have internalized a few particularly obnoxious stereotypes.
"Did you point out to this woman why such an attitude was not welcome in your home or around your daughter?"
Yeah, well, I'm not exactly the most subtle guy sometimes. Let's just say the message was delivered quite clearly.
"Grandpapa raised Nana as a single father and didn't remarry until Nana went to college"
That's pretty darn incredible!
Don't hate the playa'... Hate my academic jargon!
Re: Don't hate the playa'... Hate my academic jargon!
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As a new father, I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly. I look around at the spouses of other new mom's my wife has met, and I'm utterly horrified. Horrified. They're like... "Baby's your problem, chick. Men don't bother with kids. *beeeeelch!"
And I'm really not overly stereotyping here. I've actually seen these guys. Lots of them.
More Proof
BRILLIANT!
xo
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Thank you.
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Thanks for the RenFest tickets! Hopefully the rain will stop when we try to go next weekend.
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You. Are. Terrible. =D
Yes! I hope the weather clears up for your visit to faire--for both our sake!
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And Matt Damon rocks!
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Which is not the only reason I'm befriending you (finally), but it's a convenient excuse. :)
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Now I need to go have a drink and a smoke.
GOD what the fuck???
Speaking of drinks and smokes, how does your November look?
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And I'll respond more in depth to your comment on Monday when I'm not on this stupid laptop keyboard with a spotty internet connection.
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I see young Feminists as going through the same process as we see in New Pagans. The anger, the outrage, the "it's all a problem because The Patriarchy/Organized Religion/Societal Obligations are the cause" makes for some passionate outpourings of expression. And then they realize that they've become the very same thing they profess to detest, only on the other side. Slowly, through study, research, observation and thinking for themselves, they come closer to mid-ground and realize that the problem isn't That One Thing, but a combination of history/society/human flaws. And then the dialog begins.
I started a family history here and decided to go to my own journal instead of making it a comment :)
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