Liberation

[clevermanka]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Feminists of the world sit down before you read this. The Vatican newspaper says that perhaps the washing machine did more to liberate women in the 20th century than the pill or the right to work.

The submission was made in a lengthy article titled "The Washing Machine and the Liberation of Women - Put in the Detergent, Close the Lid and Relax."

The article was printed at the weekend in l'Osservatore Romano, the semi-official Vatican newspaper, to mark international Women's Day on Sunday.

"What in the 20th century did more to liberate Western women?," asks the article, which was written by a woman.

"The debate is heated. Some say the pill, some say abortion rights and some the right to work outside the home. Some, however, dare to go further: the washing machine," it says.

It then goes on to talk about the history of washing machines, starting with a rudimentary model in 1767 in Germany and ending up with today's trendy launderettes where a woman can have a cappuccino with friends while the tumbler turns. Original story found on Yahoo!News, here.

If you are Catholic, and believe that the men in the Vatican are truly speaking the will of God, explain. Seriously. Please. I don't understand.

I know Catholicism has a lot of branches and alternate theologies that the Vatican has deemed heretical. To those people, I'd simply press the question "Why do you insist on clinging to the term 'Catholic'?" To the people who consider themselves social progressives and still follow the tenents laid out by the dudes in Vatican City, I have to ask, "...the fuck? How are things like this not destroying your faith in your religion?" I mean, these guys...these guys are assholes.

I know, I know, the article was (supposedly) written by a woman. Another reminder to those annoying-as-shit female separatists out there: Just because she's got XX chromosomes doesn't mean she's fighting for your team.

Comments

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

Gee not even the right to VOTE made it in there?

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

She doesn't have the time to vote if she's busy doing her family's laundry. Obviously.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

What about take out food, hell Stoffers, pledge, self ringing mops????
What a twit!

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

So, my Mom is Catholic and I've asked her about it in various ways and several times what she really believes. It boils down to: she doesn't agree with everything the Vatican says and doesn't believe like she's *supposed* to. I'm not comfortable putting her reasons in a public place like this, but one of them is a really good one and I'll tell you in person some time.

Me: Why did you raise us Catholic and send us to Catholic schools, etc, if you didn't believe 100% in the religion?

Mom: Your dad and I wanted to give you a community and a strong sense of morality that comes with the school and Church.

Me: Ok. (thinking, that's logical but also kind of dumb, and I bet it has to do with Grandma, really).

If I asked her why she still claims the term Catholic, I bet she'd still say for the community. For her friends, and for the good she sees the church do on a local level. It's a good way for her to volunteer and help people. That what the Pope says doesn't really affect her, so it doesn't really matter. Micro vs. Macro.

AND I know someone who is converting to Catholicism. He was a great friend when we were growing up, and only a couple years older than me. I haven't seen him since the start of the catechism stuff, and I only hope that it never comes up because I... have no idea what I'll say.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

OK, this helps a lot. Thanks.

I wonder: Would she go see the Pope in a parade, just to see THE POPE? I can understand wanting to go to a Pope-led Mass, just for the experience (heck, I might be tempted to do that for the spectacle!). But I'm curious if she still, despite saying the Pope doesn't really affect her, if she's still drawn into that Cult of Personality.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

My guess is that she would not go out of her way just to see him. If it was easy, she might (or if her friends were going).

When I was a kid we were in CO camping, but couldn't get any hotels in the entire state for Mom to get a shower because the Pope was visiting Denver. I seem to recall a LOT of quiet cussing.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

HA HA HA HA! That's awesome.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

If he's not going to use his "free Dog soul" ask him if I can have it.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

LOL! Maybe if I know before hand I'll print out those pictures and take them when I see him next. Go for comedy to alleviate my discomfort. That's what jokes are really for, right?

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

That's what jokes are really for, right?

I thought humor was someone else's pain. Which, I guess, this falls under that category, too.

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

I believe your mom's comment. Leaving the Catholic Church was hard for me because I lost that community.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

I believe she was genuine, I just think there had to be more, because why not find a different community in which to indoctrinate her kids, one that more closely aligned with her beliefs?

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

To quote my father... "Where would I go? No place is perfect."

And my experience is that if you aren't jumping directly from one ship to another... nobody wants you and nobody gets it.

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

Most Catholics in western culture pick and choose, ignoring the parts they don't want or like. Here the AUTHORITY of the church (and by extention its priests) is no longer in capital letters. Many people try to change from within rather than leave.

That said, I should probably point out that most Catholics are not converted to but rather raised in the church and hence get this conditioning from babyhood onward. This can be insideous and very hard to break. People also rarely make big changes due to ideology or impersonal events; generally it takes a very personal punch in the face to make that jump.

My punch in the face came when the RC chuch refused to marry Draco and I because we were childfree and honest about it. It took almost a decade to rip out the conditioning in my brain that I hadn't even realized was there... and I came from a progressive background.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

RC chuch refused to marry Draco and I because we were childfree and honest about it

Wow. Wow-wow-wow. o_O

I know very little about Catholicism, other than they got all the pretty Christian imagery, dammit. What you're saying falls in line with everflame's comment and makes sense on an emotional (if not logical) level.

I think change from within would be a marvelous thing. We had a Baptist church in Kansas City, MO with an openly gay pastor at one point. I think they got expelled, though. =b But change is possible!

Myself, I'll be happy when humanity gets to a point where we no longer need organized/dictated religion. But I think that's a long time away.

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

It was ugly. I'm not bitter about it. They did what they saw as right. I did what I saw as right (stood up for my personal integrity and left). The bit that still bugs me is the people who councilled me to lie or find loopholes.

Myself, I'll be happy when humanity gets to a point where we no longer need organized/dictated religion.

That is a lovely dream.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Won't be in my lifetime, that's for sure.

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

I felt that way about a Black President. I'm so happy I was wrong. I agree though, not our life times but in our friends children's life times maybe.

Cause you know, we don't have kids. ;)

[redheadfae.livejournal.com]

Maybe once they can accept intergalactic visitors without visible and known means of transportation and not fall on their knees thinking the Savior(s) have arrived?

But back to the topic at hand.. yeah, just wow! Think how much frozen dinners have done for us too!
Which reminds me.. exactly why did I study shorthand in high school?
Well, besides having a means of keeping a very private journal.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

A lot of that falls to individual priests. Back to my Mom: she has occasionally gone to Mass at other churches when she knows which priest is saying it.

And one of the priests at our family church put on a clown suit for the homily when I was in 1st grade, so that he could prove to us little kids that God loves us and wants us in church even if we aren't in fancy shoes and a pretty dress. But the NEXT priest wouldn't let me use a male saint for my Confirmation. So. Varied.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

most Catholics are not converted to but rather raised in the church and hence get this conditioning from babyhood onward.

Yes, this. I still catch myself saying I'm Catholic (or rather, fallen Catholic or ex-Catholic) instead of just agnostic. And I've been an "enemy" of the Institution of the church since I was 17. AND I am still obsessed with it. With it's history and foibles and methods of torture, etc.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I am still obsessed with it. With it's history and foibles and methods of torture, etc.

I don't think that's because you were raised Catholic. I think that's because you're sick in the head.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

I think that's because you're sick in the head.

Which might be because I was raised Catholic! :D

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

It is rather a circular argument, isn't it?

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

Kind of like most of them in Catholicism.

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

*icon for you both*

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

<3

[ms-danson.livejournal.com]

I like the term "apostate" personally. I'm atheist so I can't use the term "heretic" anymore.

As an entity the RC church is fascinating.

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

LOL - I do often call myself a heathen, too. But I spent a few years dancing around bonfires with witches as the far swing of my Catholic rebellion pendulum.

[the-themiscyran.livejournal.com]

The Catholic Church is also fascinating from a purely political perspective, particularly for us former Medieval History majors. I've sometimes upset people because I pretty much only view it as a country and not as a religious entity.

[starstraf.livejournal.com]

Here is what I have picked up from being partnered with a Catholic for 13+ years.

There is also a difference between the Catholic Religion and the Catholic Church. Someone can be of the Catholic Religion and not agree with the Catholic Church.

The catholic religion is about things like the Creed (belief in God and Jesus) sacraments (Gifts from god) Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony, and such

The catholic religion is how church's are organized and ordained, statements from the pope the Roman Catholic Church is one of the Catholic church structures.

I view it in much the same way that I am Pagan but I don't agree with many of the things said by the public faces of paganism (Church of All Worlds, Starhawk...)

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

There is also a difference between the Catholic Religion and the Catholic Church

Interesting. Not sure I buy it, but interesting.

I mean...didn't those things like the creed, sacraments, etc., originate from "organized and ordained, statements from the pope" or at least someone speaking on his behalf?

[starstraf.livejournal.com]

originated in much the same way that our government originated from the constitution - sometimes you can't see how it got from one to the other and might even be in conflict with the origins depending on your interpretation.

[ladyniniane.livejournal.com]

In the FWIW category:

It's not just a Catholic thing, but it is (or appears to be) a dogmatic Christian thing. The same statements (and attitudes) listed above apply to a sizable percentage of Protestant Christian denominations as well, including every one of the groups that identify themselves as very conservative (read, fundamentalist) in dogma and tradition.

And, I would agree that the sense of community engendered in those groups is a large part of what keeps many people connected to them.

[slinka.livejournal.com]

"Put in the Detergent, Close the Lid and Relax."

I am totally picturing us in smoking jackets and slippers, drinking chocotinis while we do the laundry. Man, this is the life! :D

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

If only we didn't have eighteen brats running around the house because birth control is a sin.

=D

And: I would totally do laundry with you. *wink*

[indigodreamer.livejournal.com]

I'm with you, and I was raised Catholic and even went to Catholic schools through eighth grade. When we moved halfway through eighth grade I begged to switch to public schools, and my mom (who was somewhat disillusioned with the church's policies on women) was agreeable. I think the Catholics really, really failed with me, though, because I was ready to reject the entire doctrine out of hand at 13 (and I was very angry and disgusted about it).

I miss the ceremony and am still attracted to cultural things that have a lot of ceremony (I balled through Obama's inauguration at Abe & Jake's, for example, for a variety of reasons and also largely because I'm susceptible to the power of ceremonial stuff). And I did feel a sense of loss at 13 when I stopped going to church, and I did feel bad when my dad and grandma questioned me about it and were obviously distressed. And every year I'm seriously inclined to consider giving things up for lent, because it made me feel really healthy and powerful as a kiddo.

When my dad switched from Catholic to Evangelical Christian after he got the brain tumor, I was not happy; Catholics give very dignified and beautiful funerals, and it would have been much preferable to me than the unveiled bid for more members that the Evangelical church did in honor of his death (ask me and I'll tell you about it sometime). The Evangelical church will always be lower in my estimation than even the Catholics.

However, since I've been an adult I haven't been comfortable associating myself with the bare hypocrisy and unwillingness to recognize the humanity of half of its membership that has characterized the Catholic church, so I haven't been Catholic for seventeen years, and I *don't* consider it one of the more difficult decisions I've ever made.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I haven't been Catholic for seventeen years, and I *don't* consider it one of the more difficult decisions I've ever made.

This sentence FTW.

I think it's human nature (currently at least) to be moved by ritual. We're not going to lose/evolve away from that need for communal emotional awe anytime soon.

[pointoforigin.livejournal.com]

I was raised Catholic and was still Catholic until just a couple of years ago. Not any more, though. Too long a story . . . but, in brief, you only have to hit me upside the head six or eight or eleventy-one times before I figure out that no, you are not my friend. You only have to rape so many kids . . . burn so many women . . . kill so many Jews . . . shun so many gays . . . tell so many lies . . . before I can't sit still in church any more. It does make me look like a slow learner . . . but in my defense, they call it brainwashing for a reason, yo!! My apologies to any still-practicing Catholics who don't feel they were brainwashed. All I know is that I definitely was. Look up Robert Jay Lifton's eight methods of thought reform, and you won't find a one of them that isn't practiced by the Catholic Church. IMHO, of course.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

A lot of their wonderful charity work has unfortunately included preventing the use of condoms in developing countries.

I hadn't even thought about that, but I'm not at all surprised by it. That's terrible.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

world music/rockabilly fusion

I am horrified--and yet intrigued--by the idea.