Creeps

[clevermanka]

There was an article posted to ontd_political today about the word "creep" and how there's this outrage (apparently) from guys who are upset about being (oh noes!) labeled with an unflattering descriptor. I'm gonna be honest--I didn't read the original article (it's from the Jezebel website, which, yeah, enough said), but that's okay because the point of this post I'm making was inspired by this comment, more than the original article.

"Men are given the benefit of the doubt even when grossly transgressing the rules of social appropriateness; women are shamed for minor infractions. If a particular "socially awkward" man can't recognize that some women and girls are socially awkward as well, his problem goes beyond awkwardness and crosses into sexism."

Can I get a hell, yes?

I've observed this time and time again in SF. Those of us who attend SF cons and conferences know the type. He's the nervous guy who's "just trying to be nice" and whom we should pity or forgive because he's a nerd and hasn't been schooled in socially appropriate behavior. He's the annoyingly chatty guy who follows a woman around to different room parties and attempts to insinuate himself in conversations, even after getting shut down numerous times. He's the overbearing guy who stands too close and makes unsettling jokes about a woman's (possibly your) costume. He is, in short, a creep.

But this is the Science Fiction community, and we should be more accepting and understanding of people with social problems. After all, we're all a bunch of nerds in this together, right?

Wrong.

I know that I've been labeled a bitch for not putting up with with socially unacceptable or just plain irritating behavior (from men and women). I'm not going to argue whether someone should or should not spend half an hour whining about their health problems at seven fucking thirty in the morning to everyone in the consuite. I'm not going to argue whether someone should or should not constantly disparage an entire genre of fiction, even after repeated requests to cease. Their behaviors are not the issue here. The issue is that my refusal to participate as an observer to those monologues and my removal of myself from the situations earned me less-than-positive regard from several people at that con. The fact that I displayed a reaction outside the accepted norm resulted in my being labeled with an unflattering descriptor.

To make the inequality even more blatant: I would have removed myself from the latter conversation even sooner were I not in the company of two women who need to protect their reputations because they are writers and can't afford bad press. What is this? Eighth grade? Seriously, people.

So, you know what? Fuck a bunch of that. Fuck the mentality of the guy getting a pass for being a creep because he can't be bothered to learn and internalize appropriate social cues.

I can't force anyone to work on their personality issues, but I can say that if someone chooses to engage in behavior that makes people uncomfortable, that person has no right to bemoan the appellation of "creep." They cannot use a life of social ineptitude to excuse inappropriate behavior. The only way to remove the Creep stigma is to change behavior and stop acting like a creep.

Giving men who behave like creeps the benefit of the doubt while we readily attach "bitch" to women who break social niceties is sexism, plain and simple. I have no room in my life for sexist creeps. I encourage you to seriously consider whether you should, either.

Comments

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

Well said.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

I could apply this whole thing to Rennies as well as SF people.

[redheadfae.livejournal.com]

Well said. Have you had the experience of women acting like creeps as well? I have at KCRF one year, and in no way am I excusing their behaving like creeps just because we share the same plumbing design.

*What is this? Eighth grade?*
Yes. Yes, feels that way to me, and I've never understood why it's accepted at cons and RenFests as 'part of the culture'.
Bullshit, I say.

It takes the person being told "you are acting creepy, stop that" and as you said, there are few people willing to stand up and suit up for that role.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

I KNOW!

[tessagratton.livejournal.com]

Oh yes.

I'd say this should be the first panel you offer at a con, bc it's part of what the community really needs, but we know how that would go.

[miischelle.livejournal.com]

This whole thing just sort of underlines the fact that social skills are SKILLS that have to be learned.

Yes, some people have a talent for them - but the rest of us have to practice and put up with the consequences of sucking at it some of the time. And learn from out mistakes. And try again.

[dotar-sojat.livejournal.com]

Amen, sister!

[etcet.livejournal.com]

A-fuckin'-men.

[etcet.livejournal.com]

She'd be thronged by adoring fans, hounded for autographs, and plied with offers for drinks afterward, prior to being carried through the lobby like a conquering hero?

No, wait, that's my UtopiaCon expressing itself again, isn't it?

[mercaque.livejournal.com]

As the writer of that comment, yes! Well-said! The experience behind my comment was not with SF cons but with movement atheism (where a lot of the same, "we're all smart outcasts in this together" mentality prevails). It's both funny and really sad that pretty much the exact same behaviors are such a problem in both domains, and that people make the same excuses.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Have you had the experience of women acting like creeps as well?

God, yes.

there are few people willing to stand up and suit up for that role

*fistbump*

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

that's my UtopiaCon expressing itself again, isn't it?

SADLY, YES.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

...learn from out mistakes. And try again.

Crucial! Yes! People can't just whine "well I tried that" and give up. It's like any other activity you want to improve. If you want to get good, you gotta keep working at it.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

*fistbump*

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Hallelujah!

[etcet.livejournal.com]

YO, CHRIS, CARRY YOUR DELIGHTFUL COMPANION THROUGH THE LOBBY LIKE A CONQUERING HERO AT YOUR NEXT CON APPEARANCE!

You know, I bet we could get you a Brute Squad if you wanted one...

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Thanks for stopping by and reading!

And FFS yes, I am so tired (as an atheist myself) of religionists thinking that because I don't believe in a god, I have no internal moral/ethical compass, and therefore can (and will) behave like an asshole at will--because they observed this behavior in one other person who claimed to be an atheist.

BAH.

Edit: in re-reading this comment, it sounds like I'm arguing the other side of "wah! this term is unfair because I'm getting painted with their brush!" What I meant to imply in my comment here is that this is exactly why we shouldn't allow this sort of behavior to slide under the guise of social awkwardness in our subcultures.

[nottygypsy.livejournal.com]

I've had more women creeps then men. The ONLY inapproprate physical contact I've dealt with has been women. They are by no means protected by gender from being CREEPS.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Oh sweet jesus, don't give him any ideas.

[redheadfae.livejournal.com]

Damn skippy. The creepiness I experienced was of a stalking variety from the women.
I believe that strong women of a certain personality scare the hell out of any man who might have designs on grabassery or reaching directly for a tit feel.
The last little manchild who was quite drunk and tried that on me got his nuts in a vise-grip with the admonition that next time I *will* rip them off and shove them down his windpipe.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

we know how that would go

Not only would they schedule me at 9am on Sunday morning, I doubt I'd get anyone to serve on the panel with me except those with dissenting opinions. In other words: the Creeps.

[sdemory.livejournal.com]

Too true. The "we're all in this together" argument or the "we're outcasts, so we understand" argument's all well and good as long as it doesn't infringe on others. The quiet guy who comes to a party and reads the liner notes to the music that's being played is one thing. Someone who sees being awkward as a means of establishing social dominance, though, is unacceptable. At that point, it becomes a tactic rather than a failing.

[gretchystretchy.livejournal.com]

Flawless post is flawless.

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

*very deep and honored bow*

[clevermanka.livejournal.com]

Someone who sees being awkward as a means of establishing social dominance, though, is unacceptable

Wow. I've never even thought of it as a dominance tactic, but you are so right. It absolutely can be used that way, and that makes it even more horrible. UGH.