clevermanka | Feminism and Strong! Female! Characters!

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Feminism and Strong! Female! Characters!

I'm sure most everyone remembers (regretfully) the train wreck that was Sucker Punch, right? Even if you didn't see it (I did not see it), you probably heard about it. If you didn't, you're a very fortunate person and you should probably skip the rest of this entry here. Save yourself!

Even early on, before it was released, I could tell this thing was a turd. That's me, being a hater, right there.

I can't remember if I linked to this fantastic LJ post about the movie before, but it's entitled "Sucker Punch: A Very Serious Essay on Feminism" and you really should check it out. It came out after the movie, so at least the author wasn't guilty of judging too early. You know, like me.

This morning, Kate Beaton came out with her own take on the subject matter. I'm not certain how much Sucker Punch influenced this particular comic, but everything that influenced Sucker Punch is influencing this, so there's a whole bunch of massive influence going on that you really need to check out.

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That essay was much better than the movie, and I'm saying that without actually having seen it because I'm in touch with my pre-judgmental mojo.

Perhaps alas, I'm already formulating a drinking game in my head. Probably going to feminist hell for that.

Mmmm. A hell filled with the sort of feminists who devise drinking games around crap movies masquerading as Female Empowerment Epics would be the best hell ever.

Edit: Also? I fucking love that Perhaps Alas (http://chernobylred.livejournal.com/693589.html) has endured this long.

Edited 2011-06-28 14:20 (UTC)

It's got to be pretty awful (see what I did there?) if a trailer for a fantasy flick does nothing to make me want to see it. And that one did absolutely nothing for me.

I'm just a bit baffled why people are really taking this shit that seriously. Did the producers really try to call it some kind of empowerment? Was it presented that way, or am I missing something here?

:reads comments on essay and has a good laugh at the Fabio reference and those who don't get it:

Oh .. I see. It's "empowering" if the women kill men for fantasy revenge?

It's okay, you can slap me now.

Did the producers really try to call it some kind of empowerment?

Yes. Yes they did. I don't have the link to that particular interview, but oh yes. Yup.

Oh man, that's fucking sad.

I'd rather have my man-killing women in fantasy that knows it's sleazy (http://www.filmsamling.se/dyanne/main.html) and doesn't pretend otherwise.

I'm really surprised that link didn't take me to I Spit Upon Your Grave.

But, but.. there's no cute or sexy outfits in that one, see.

=D

Good point.

Oh, dear. You saw it? Did you have to pay?

I'm usually happy to be a sparking ganglia when it comes to pretty girls and guns, and I didn't want to see that. My heart goes out to you for having to sit through it.

Read this. (http://cavecitysink.tumblr.com/post/4167367840/this-movie-made-me-feel-bad-to-be-alive-a-review-of)

Ganglion. Brain's firing on two cylinders at best.

Ha! And heavens no, I did not see it. Although after

saffronhare's comment above, I might have to rent it sometime with a group of like-minded individuals. Drinking/MST3K party, you know.

We saw it just last night by coincidence. I went in thinking it would be a couple of hours of overblown cg violence, sexy outfits, and cool post production, which, done for entertainment's sake, I can handle. But honestly, it made me very sad. Not sad in a "oh this is such a sad story way," but in a "this is supposed to be a story about personal empowerment; I feel sad for womanhood" way. It was a huge bummer.

Don't feel sad for womanhood, hon! Feel bad for Zach Snyder, who thinks that's a good representation of women's empowerment.

So, would you recommend this as a drinking/mockery game? Or should I just stay away?

The fact that ANYone thinks that that's how women should feel embowered is a blow to the gut. As a mockery movie, no way; it is no fun at all. Maybe watch it for ammunition, but not for any kind of a good time.

The fact that ANYone thinks that that's how women should feel embowered is a blow to the gut.

Well, yes...but I gotta pick my battles, and Mr. Snyder is not one of mine.

As a mockery movie, no way; it is no fun at all.

This is very good information. I trust your judgment and shall follow your recommendation.

It's weird, because for every two or three posts I see talking about how terrible a job Sucker Punch does of being feminist at all, I find one really earnest post somewhere about what a good job it does. Which, I dunno, seems weird.

I'm kind of curious to see it when it hits DVD. Just, y'know, to see exactly how that train wreck happened, and how many cars were involved, etc. Lord knows it won't be the first time morbid curiosity has driven me to a DVD, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

I find one really earnest post somewhere about what a good job it does

This baffles me. I don't know how you can be any sort of educated feminist and think this movie is about empowering women.

Now, you can be an educated feminist and still enjoy the movie (the Very Serious Essay post has some great comments and discussion about this), but I am betting those people calling it a feminist movie are doing so to justify their own like of the movie. Because they can't admit to themselves that they like it even though it's horrifically problematic. That would mean they aren't "good feminists," which just adds to the Levels of Sad about the situation.

I have Great Morbid Curiosity, too.

to see exactly how that train wreck happened, and how many cars were involved

I love this turn of phrase.

Edited 2011-06-28 18:03 (UTC)

I think a lot of people (sometimes myself included) have a lot of trouble with liking something that's problematic. Sometimes it can be hard to reconcile, and I think a lot of weird arguments and posturing on the Internet tend to happen when somebody likes something they think maybe they shouldn't so they quickly try to find some reason why it totally wasn't like that, honest so they don't feel bad.

But yeah, it seems weird. We'll see how soon my morbid curiosity prompts me to sit through it.

a lot of weird arguments and posturing on the Internet tend to happen when somebody likes something they think maybe they shouldn't so they quickly try to find some reason why it totally wasn't like that, honest so they don't feel bad.

Yes yes yes a million times yes. This.

Edit: After reading

slinka's thoughts on the film (above), I think I shan't indulge my own morbid curiosity, though.

Edited 2011-06-29 00:17 (UTC)

I'm sure I will sooner or later, so I'll let you know how that goes.

It's not feminist but it's not horrifically problematic either.

It's an essay on what kind of delusions a person would have if they were really into pop culture and then had a horrible break from reality.

It's about dissociation and it does a very good job of talking about that.

Reading various reviews I get the sense that everyone went to the bathroom during the scene where it's made clear that the brothel/strip joint exists only in her mind.

Once you realize that place doesn't exist in the real world it changes things considerably.

Mmm. I disagree. Unfortunately, I can't argue this very eloquently because I haven't seen the movie. But just because something is a fantasy doesn't excuse it from falling prey to misogynistic cliche. And that can be said about any movie/book/creative piece. Not just this one.

True that can be said - but I really don't think it's the case with this film.

For me, I think it's realistic that a girl who was molested by her step father would have some fucked up and sexulized delusions after she accidentally kills her sister and is thrown into an insane asylum.

The thing is she fights those delusions and in doing so goes into a deeper level of delusion where she is at various points Ripley from Alien, Lady Luna from Final Fantasy, Sarah Conner from Terminator, Sonya Blade from Mortal Kombat, Dorthy from the Wizard of Oz and Laura Croft from Tomb Raider.

I find it completely convincing and not cliche at all that a teenage girl would identify with those characters during a dissociation since they are pretty most popular strong female characters in pop culture.

That doesn't make the film about empowerment - it's not - it makes it about coping mechanisms.

I still think it's sad that our coping mechanisms rely on short skirts and infantalization/sexualization of female characters.

But they aren't really wearing short skirts. When she first sees them they are in hospital gowns. It's only when she breaks from reality that she sees them in short skirts. Then, at the end they are back in hospital gowns.

and then laughed for like 30 minutes.

I am one of those fortunate people that I have NO CLUE what you are talking about. But you said turd and that made my day.

YAY!

I'll add: The guy who made this movie is most likely a douche.

XOXO

You are my hero of the day!

XOXO

P.S. I loved the postcard! Thank you so much! I seriously needed that joy.

Aw. You are welcome. Also, I miss you. We need to hang out more this winter.

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Feminism and Strong! Female! Characters!

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Sexism is OVER!

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I got to the part where you said turd

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